violence is a tool, not the whole toolbox
when the state labels you an extremist for existing, when they criminalize your identity, then self-defense becomes mandatory. Trump is using Charlie Kirk’s death to enact genocidal measures against queer Americans. if the FBI labels us as Nihilistic Violent Extremists the response will be bloodshed, and it will be deserved. The Stonewall riots weren’t polite. John Brown didn’t ask nicely. there is no debating with fascists. arguing with them is a waste of energy. make them afraid to show their faces instead.
Charlie Kirk was a white supremacist fascist who supported the creation of a Christian nationalist theocracy. the threat he posed to humanity was incalculable. he spent the later part of his career supporting state-sanctioned murder in part through denying healthcare, police brutality, and keeping Americans trapped in poverty. Charlie Kirk was a passive serial killer like every other fascist. instead of doing the dirty work themselves, they outsource the killing to cops, laws, and death by a thousand cuts.
there is nothing to condemn in relation to Kirk’s assassination. lone wolf resistance is inevitable when people are pushed to the brink. the left’s instinct to distance itself from these acts is naive and disempowering. it ignores history and human nature. revolution is messy. it’s not just marches and speeches, it’s desperate people doing desperate things because they’ve been left no other choice. the killing of fascists isn’t some aberration—it’s a predictable response to state-sanctioned terror.
stop condemning the acts of the oppressed or allies of the oppressed as “counterproductive” or “immoral.” they are the logical outcome of oppression. it may not be pretty, and it may even hurt the cause due to the response received, but the fault is of those who made war inevitable. the left needs to grow up. violence is a tool, not a sin. the real sin is the conditions that create it.
the thing is, lone wolf violence is never going to end. it is human nature. there are always going to be assassinations and one-off killings of prominent figures. avoid praise if you must but reframe the issue as an unfortunate yet necessary part of revolution that has been forced upon us. let the people know assassinations are the actions of a caged animal with no power remaining. tell the world that gunmen are responding to an immediate threat to human lives, and that this is the fault of the fascists; this is the psychological damage they cause. embrace what happens when revolution is needed, not because it’s righteous, but because it’s a testament to the strength of the human spirit. face what is happening as a matter of reality when it comes to disposing of fascists.
it’s a good thing that charlie kirk is gone. it doesn’t matter how it happened. words have power and he used his to make the country unsafe for minorities. he directly contributed to the climate that led to every single murder in the name of bigotry the last 10 years. blood was on his hands. it’s always a net positive when a monster is stopped.
i don’t care that Charlie Kirk is dead. i care that there are thousands more who need the same treatment.
Not sure this is unpopular on Lemmy but certainly in the larger culture.
I don’t think it’s self-defense to kill someone you’ve never interacted with and isn’t a direct threat to you. The only reason lethal self defense is sometimes acceptable is because in some circumstances, a direct and imminent threat means there is no time or space to seek alternative routes to safety. Regardless of whether Kirk’s rhetoric was a threat to the shooter, the threat was neither direct nor imminent and seeking alternative solutions was clearly an option.
It gets even more dubious when you recognize that Kirk was not a unique threat to queer people. He was merely a mouthpiece for a powerful network of people. People whose power is not fundamentally challenged or altered by his death. So there’s no reason to believe the act was even effective at making anyone safer anyway. I would argue it has put people in more danger than before.
Absolutely this.
Once you establish violence as a legitimate political tool, things turn nasty in a hurry. The citizenry is not benefitting from political violence.
I would push back on this slightly. Political violence is already fairly normalized when it comes to the state. But I agree that an escalation of this violence will not be helpful.
What’s needed is the delegitimization of this kind of violence by the powerful against the people. That’s a bit of a distinct topic but I think these lone wolf attacks tend to lend more, not less legitimacy to the real violence that is going on.
Dude was a prick. A Podcaster prick. Now he’s a dead prick.
Now how about them Epstein files?
We don’t know the shooter’s motive. We do know that the official story from law enforcement includes a lot of things that are inconsistent with reality and rationality. (A .30-06 round from 150 yds didn’t blow Kirk’s neck completely off, the round didn’t exit his body, and there was no spatter on the mostly white backdrop behind him; the accused was seen “limping” towards the event, presumably having a rifle barrel in his pants, while at the same time being able to jump from the roof and run across the grass without such a rifle barrel; the accused disassembled the rifle in order to escape (while somehow still hiding the barrel, of course) then left it in the woods after reassembling it … instead of just continuing to successfully conceal it and escape without leaving it close to the scene.)
But I digress.
You’re assuming that the shooter is “the oppressed or [an ally] of the oppressed”. We don’t know that, and there’s plenty to suggest that the shooter isn’t the kind of person you think.
Of course, everyone wants to know the truth of the matter, but we just don’t have it. There is nothing wrong with waiting for more information, but even then, we may never know. We don’t always get what we want.
Charlie Kirk was unabashedly racist and sexist.
There absolutely is a place for political violence, but right now I’m definitely not convinced that shooting Kirk was a good thing
I agree with the first half of your title, but the second half goes way too far.
Are you not aware that the shooter was a “groyper” (i.e. a fan of Nick Fuentes, a literal neo-nazi rival influencer even more extreme than Kirk himself)?
The last thing we need to be doing is “empathiz[ing]” with fascists, even when they kill other fascists.
Are you not aware that the shooter was a “groyper”
The basis of this claim is shaky. There’s no good evidence he engaged with the Groyper movement. It’s just speculation.
I just spent 20 minutes looking for an article reporting on this that is properly sourced and I found nothing. Nothing material or people close to him connecting him to Fuentes and the groypers. This seems like speculation and wishful thinking from internet sleuths and we should stop repeating it. So far we don’t know much and the reporting in the media has been abysmal. I won’t even qualify the statements made by officials.
I believe if he had any clear political affiliation we would already know it by now. It’s such an obvious slam dunk from either side. No one would let that opportunity to trash the other side just slide away.
Closest are weak statements like ”he’s from a MAGA family” or ”he got a trans room mate”, but that’s about it.
Just like how we don’t lionize the guy who killed Hitler.
it doesn’t matter how it happened.
it’s always a net positive when a monster is stopped.The use of violence made Charlie Kirk into a martyr. Killing one man didn’t stop the hate he spread, it may have even emboldened it. They may have cut one head off the hydra, but the monster has not been stopped.
I believe that if we just continue with the method, it would work. You can’t make martyrs of everyone.
The gop would like you to hold their beer…
The only good Nazi…
it’s a good thing that charlie kirk is gone.
I disagree with this point. Charlie Kirk is gone, but his movement isn’t. Now the movement got more fuel in form of martyr. They got someone to fight against. They’re going to use his martyrdom to further escalate their hateful rhetoric into actions.
There are probably thousands of young men who grew up with Charlie Kirk who are ready to take on his mantle. Finding a replacement won’t be difficult. Soon there will be a Charlie Kirk 2.0 with even worse rhetoric.
No, his death isn’t a good thing. He was bad alive, but he’s worse dead.
Israel killed him… Do you still refuse to condemn it?
Kirk is a replaceable grifter. He is not a billionaire at the top running the game.
Why not just work on fixing both sides of the problem?
Because the public facing side has no power and is replaceable.
In fact Trump is now pushing the billionaire policies using Kirks death as an excuse. As are the billionaires bankrolling Kirk. Even the literal Israeli government threw Kirk under the bus for their own agenda before his body was cold.
you are truly unaware, aren’t you? Charlie Kirk was not merely a grifter, but an organizer and political activist with close ties to the Trump administration. TPUSA has over 800 local chapters all over the country and mostly in colleges. please look into where Kirk got his fingers in and understand how horrifyingly evil he was.
Bankrolled by Robert Shillman.
just like Tommy Robinson. gotta make sure his reach is worldwide.
And Geert Wilders and many more international grifters.
Kirk is not the figure in power. Not even close to it. He was a generic rank and file member.
while true on a larger scale, he was extremely important and influential to MAGA. it’s clear to me that the average person is unaware that Charlie Kirk became much more than a debate-me bro.
Probably should refuse to condemn him because he’s only allegedly the shooter and hasn’t been convicted of anything yet.
the threat he posed to humanity was incalculable.
This is where people who argue your point loose me. He was a podcaster, why do you have to inflate and exaggerate his importance? And who exactly is better off or safer now that he’s gone?
Lastly, who should get hit next? Ted Nugent? The Pillow guy?
You are really underestimating his importance in the maga propaganda and radicalisation machine
i am tired of telling people this. it is exhausting going over in excruciating detail how Charlie Kirk practically amplified and strengthened MAGA. he was not “just a podcaster,” and anyone saying this is showing their fucking ignorance.
‘Incalculable’ is often used in hyperbole, and maybe that’s how OP meant it. But I interpreted it in the literal sense, which feels correct. It’s nearly impossible to calculate his actual span of influence, as many people who listen to podcasts like to talk about said podcasts. He was also much more than just a podcaster. He founded Turning Point USA, which spawned a number of conservative action organizations. That organization also spearheaded the January 6th rally that became a riot; they created the “Stop the Steal” slogan and sent seven buses with 350 participants. So I would personally say “incalculable” is correct.
thank you.
I got no problem with taking them out next then moving on to every single notable right wing person. If Kirk’s funeral blew up I’d be even happier.
Kirk was tight with the administration. He certainly wielded more political power than his CV suggests.
He was a podcaster, why do you have to inflate and exaggerate his importance?
he was 100x more than that and you would know if you did even two seconds of looking up. he has been instrumental to MAGA’s growth the last few years and TPUSA has hundreds and hundreds of local chapters.
It’s *lose.
Everyone is better off with him dead.
I’m with you on these points. He was a podcaster. I’d actually not even heard about him in awhile prior to this. His murder has made him a martyr and brought soooo much attention to turning point USA. Like people that didn’t know it existed before are now aware. TPUSA is going to grow so much because of this because the average Republican didn’t know who he was before.
This post brought to you by the tankie-groyper accelerationist alliance
You do realize that tankies are authoritarian, right?
Yeah I do, this is some variant of horseshoe theory
gross
