Sure, let’s dump on the only guy demonstrably working to improve the lives of his constituents in whatever way he can in a system designed to concentrate wealth and power away from the people.
Perfect cannot be the enemy of good when the rest of the political landscape is clearly significantly worse.
Also, while COL in NYC is definitely not low, the pay at least allows one to actually survive because of the already-somewhat-progressive nature of NYC politics. Compare that to Florida where the pay for licensed and experienced Nurses for example is literally half that offered in New York and there are zero unions and/or worker protections besides, then maybe we can agree that forcing the predatory companies to at least be slightly less shady and let people show monetary appreciation for a job well done when clearly nobody else will is absolutely a lesser evil on the road to becoming something worthwhile one day.
For super-lefty Lemmy, shitting on the most openly and demonstrably active socialist politician in the country is kinda funny.
You’re not allowed to point out how the best possible outcome in this system is still unacceptable because we’re getting the best possible outcome in this system.
Please read all my comments in this thread and provide me examples of my inconsistency.
System is broken and needs fixing. This guy is trying to fix it. I agree this is a small step, but also believe its a step in the right direction and an example of a politician putting his money where his mouth is, all too rare these days.
I’m not “blue no matter who,” I’m saying look at the active track record of the political figure in question and then with receipts tell me how this is something actually worth criticizing like a New York Post writer. “His policies are not exactly what I want verbatim so I’m gonna throw a Libertarian-style hissy fit because I’m more right than you!”
Man is making moves people in one of the biggest cities on the planet actively approve of in ways that ease the financial burdens of working people. If I have to go searching through three screens to tip somebody through an online app then in all reality I probably won’t 9 out of 10 times. Which means more of my money goes to corporations where I never see it again versus into the actual economy where the actual value of that dollar continues to accrue as it circulates amongst the masses.
Let me reiterate from my top comment here: Perfect cannot be the enemy of good when the system is so wildly stacked against us. Every bit of progress in the right direction is a fight for an inch we no longer have to worry about later. That is how movements build momentum.
Nuance exists. Trump did ensure Project Warp Speed was enacted for COVID vaccines. I lauded him for at least doing the bare fucking minimum expected of an actual leader for once.
Look at every other policy Mamdani has managed to put in place already and then tell me why we should be mad at the guy over fixing another large issue in as sweeping a manner as he is reasonably able. You know, especially considering the federal administration would love for him to do anything “radical” so they can disappear him.
I’d see that tweet and say a broken clock is right twice a day.
Its not a perfect solution, but its a manageable step in the right direction that immediately benefits workers following a path of least resistance.
The perfect solution is to banish tipping and force employers to pay more. The reality of doing that, in an unguided way, is that Lyft/Uber would either pull out of NYC or find loopholes to stiff the worker. Forcing higher tip options is a quick solution, that’s easily implementable and enforcable, as a greater coalition builds of people believing in the government there will be less resistance to perfect solutions.
But for now, something that tangibly benefits workers is a good thing, and it certainly isn’t a bad thing.
which would be a great thing tbh, but they would never pull out of such a big city. you could probably force them do double every salary overnight and they would still be able to afford it.
you could probably force them do double every salary overnight and they would still be able to afford it.
They’d crank the prices up for the end user, and make it very clear that it’s Mamdani’s fault your ride home from the club is 3x what it usually is (because you know they would increase it more than they actually need).
They’d just leave the city because it would become unprofitable.
It would need to be subsidized somehow if you want drivers to make a living wage while also implementing price controls and eliminating tipping. At that point, just have it be a city-owned public service.
Turns out that it costs a lot of money to transport people around for a living wage.
Who said anything about making it unprofitable? It would merely be less profitable, and they won’t leave over that. They can still make a huge amount of profit from volume.
This idea that we are at the mercy of private businesses and there’s nothing we can do to control them needs to die.
They’re also large enough that they could pull out of NYC with a note/call to action on their app bashing Mandami, “Mayor Mandami has passed a law that makes operations unsustainable in NYC. This unrealistic expectation jeopardizes the livelihoods of thousands of drivers and their families in NYC. Please write Mayor Mandami and demand that he repeals Law 863 and restore the jobs of thousands of people. Until then we cannot offer you a ride within NYC limits. Good luck!”
They could simultaneously pay their drivers to protest city hall.
They have the ability to create a protest that would cause most politicians to cave. I don’t know if Mandami would cave, but it certainly would hurt his image - and thus hurt the image of all Democratic Socialists and similar progressive movements.
Conservatism cares a lot about people having jobs. Not about whether they are paid living wages.
i don’t know if mamdani alone does, but point is their profits are huge and they could bring prices down or salaries up if they wanted (or were forced) to.
To be clear though, my argument has nothing to do with the feasibility or responsibility of the government to regulate Lyft/Uber into paying living wages.
My argument is that Mandami is building a movement/coalition through paths of least resistance and sweeping incremental changes as opposed to highly targeted legislative changes.
Biden did wipe out student debt, but because the courts were packed, his efforts were nullified. Had the groundwork been laid first (replacing the courts) then this life changing legislation would have passed. In order to replace the courts, there would need to be a coalition built supporting the change. It’s great to shoot for the moon, but if our progressive spaceship blows up on the way to the moon, our progressive politicians will have a track record of getting nothing accomplished - just like the lazy sacks of shit that are the true enemies of the state: Mitch McConnell, Chuck Schumer, etc.
If we want the moon, and we deserve the moon, then we need to be OK with taking the path of least resistance, getting the easy wins, and building a coalition.
They wouldn’t even need to pull out, they’d pass the increase in costs to the consumers (the riders), and they’ll make it very clear that it’s Mamdani’s fault their ride is so expensive now.
Except Trump only criticizes and mocks stuff. Never says “this is a win for the people” but “I won”. Mamdani isnt talking about himself at all and making a point about how corporations were stealing using the old system and he is making things fair. Is tipping good? Fuck no. But at least the workers are getting more value from their work without capital hoarders lying to them now.
Tipping money isn’t going from the owner class to the working class. It’s just going from workers to other workers. Fundamentally this fixes nothing and if anything tipping culture should be abolished not expanded.
Agreed that tipping should be abolished but you’re missing the problem that Mamdani is addressing. He’s making it harder for the owners to lie to the workers. He is forcing them to follow the laws set forth now so when the laws are changed they have to follow the law or be found liable, which is scary for owners.
Door dash will become more expensive as a “reaction” to this (reaction being an excuse their executives use)
MamdaniDidThis.sticker
Suddenly the former affordability mayor is replaced by an anti-immigrant pro-cop mayor that preaches all about the plight of the white person’s pocketbook and who’s to blame for rising prices, but in a more New Yorker-acceptable tone.
Sure, let’s dump on the only guy demonstrably working to improve the lives of his constituents in whatever way he can in a system designed to concentrate wealth and power away from the people.
That’s exactly the problem, he shouldn’t be merely fiddling the knobs of the system to make it slightly less horrible he should be advocating for demolishing it and building a new one.
You can also do both at the same time but he doesn’t seem to be interested in the latter at all. He is a pressure release valve, he’ll get some concessions out of the ruling class but nothing is going to result in systemic change and when inevitably he loses public support either due to being unable to resolve some contradiction inherent in the system and/or being victim of a propaganda effort he’ll be replaced by some shitbag that’s going to reverse all the good he did.
This happened time and time again throughout history but people like you are still going to be yelling “but anything more is unrealistic” even as the we all burn from climate change.
Burning down the system sounds great until you’re starving in a mountain of your own waste.
I agree the current system is for shit and needs to be done away with entirely, but society is a little more complicated than Legos; smashing it down to start again costs a lot more than just time and even money.
Fiddling the knobs to make it manageable, proving he can do something in NYC of all places with all of that inertia, then possibly taking his platform bigger since he is a freshman politician fighting a 250 year old established system?
I’m not saying he’s perfect or above criticism. I’m also saying we can still be pragmatic.
but society is a little more complicated than Legos; smashing it down to start again costs a lot more than just time and even money.
Wow can’t believe Marx never thought of this, he literally just said everything would be perfect the very next day can’t believe he lied to me.
I’m also saying we can still be pragmatic.
The kind of pragmatic you’re supporting here is never going to adequately reform or incrementally replace the current system. I know this because it was tried many many times by even more radical social democrats than Mamdani and it never worked. To me revolution is the most pragmatic thing you can do.
I’m not expecting miracles from this guy I know he’s just a mayor even if it is one of the most important cities in the US and arguably the world but the way he’s speaking in a typical weaselly Democrat manner and by doing dumb shit like this doesn’t really make me super confident of his future success.
That’s exactly the problem, he shouldn’t be merely fiddling the knobs of the system to make it slightly less horrible he should be advocating for demolishing it and building a new one.
While I agree they should be dismantled This is not what any mainstream politician will do, anyone who will be elected in current American politics will be a reformist. I personally believe that we SHOULD be criticizing him and the other DSA candidates AS SOCIALISTS and not simply hand wave criticism away because they won’t simply attempt to abolish the police on their first day as Mayor. So while I criticize people like Tlaib, Omar, Mamdani, AOC as socialists it does not mean that their reformist views are completely lost on me… Of course I’d rather have a million Ilhan Omars and Mamdanis instead of McCarthys… however not being McCarty does not absolve them and does not make them socialist… I hope I’m clear
Sure, let’s dump on the only guy demonstrably working to improve the lives of his constituents in whatever way he can in a system designed to concentrate wealth and power away from the people.
Perfect cannot be the enemy of good when the rest of the political landscape is clearly significantly worse.
Also, while COL in NYC is definitely not low, the pay at least allows one to actually survive because of the already-somewhat-progressive nature of NYC politics. Compare that to Florida where the pay for licensed and experienced Nurses for example is literally half that offered in New York and there are zero unions and/or worker protections besides, then maybe we can agree that forcing the predatory companies to at least be slightly less shady and let people show monetary appreciation for a job well done when clearly nobody else will is absolutely a lesser evil on the road to becoming something worthwhile one day.
For super-lefty Lemmy, shitting on the most openly and demonstrably active socialist politician in the country is kinda funny.
It wouldn’t be the left without constant, self-sabotaging, infighting.
How much criticism is too much criticism for Mamdani? Is any too much?
Please read all my comments in this thread and provide me examples of my inconsistency.
System is broken and needs fixing. This guy is trying to fix it. I agree this is a small step, but also believe its a step in the right direction and an example of a politician putting his money where his mouth is, all too rare these days.
I’m not “blue no matter who,” I’m saying look at the active track record of the political figure in question and then with receipts tell me how this is something actually worth criticizing like a New York Post writer. “His policies are not exactly what I want verbatim so I’m gonna throw a Libertarian-style hissy fit because I’m more right than you!”
Man is making moves people in one of the biggest cities on the planet actively approve of in ways that ease the financial burdens of working people. If I have to go searching through three screens to tip somebody through an online app then in all reality I probably won’t 9 out of 10 times. Which means more of my money goes to corporations where I never see it again versus into the actual economy where the actual value of that dollar continues to accrue as it circulates amongst the masses.
Let me reiterate from my top comment here: Perfect cannot be the enemy of good when the system is so wildly stacked against us. Every bit of progress in the right direction is a fight for an inch we no longer have to worry about later. That is how movements build momentum.
I was mocking you for calling actions completely consistent with their ideology inconsistent.
That’s why I used a quotation.
The system doesn’t need fixing, it needs replacing. You cannot “fix” capitalism. The thing it does is the point of it.
Your entire argument comes down to “But Muhmdani did it and therefore you’re not allowed to criticize it”
Let’s say this is the Tweet what do you think about it now
Nuance exists. Trump did ensure Project Warp Speed was enacted for COVID vaccines. I lauded him for at least doing the bare fucking minimum expected of an actual leader for once.
Look at every other policy Mamdani has managed to put in place already and then tell me why we should be mad at the guy over fixing another large issue in as sweeping a manner as he is reasonably able. You know, especially considering the federal administration would love for him to do anything “radical” so they can disappear him.
I’d see that tweet and say a broken clock is right twice a day.
Its not a perfect solution, but its a manageable step in the right direction that immediately benefits workers following a path of least resistance.
The perfect solution is to banish tipping and force employers to pay more. The reality of doing that, in an unguided way, is that Lyft/Uber would either pull out of NYC or find loopholes to stiff the worker. Forcing higher tip options is a quick solution, that’s easily implementable and enforcable, as a greater coalition builds of people believing in the government there will be less resistance to perfect solutions.
But for now, something that tangibly benefits workers is a good thing, and it certainly isn’t a bad thing.
which would be a great thing tbh, but they would never pull out of such a big city. you could probably force them do double every salary overnight and they would still be able to afford it.
They’d crank the prices up for the end user, and make it very clear that it’s Mamdani’s fault your ride home from the club is 3x what it usually is (because you know they would increase it more than they actually need).
How do you think that would work out for Zohran?
Price controls.
They’d just leave the city because it would become unprofitable.
It would need to be subsidized somehow if you want drivers to make a living wage while also implementing price controls and eliminating tipping. At that point, just have it be a city-owned public service.
Turns out that it costs a lot of money to transport people around for a living wage.
my point is that it wouldn’t. their profit rates are astronomical.
Who said anything about making it unprofitable? It would merely be less profitable, and they won’t leave over that. They can still make a huge amount of profit from volume.
This idea that we are at the mercy of private businesses and there’s nothing we can do to control them needs to die.
They’re also large enough that they could pull out of NYC with a note/call to action on their app bashing Mandami, “Mayor Mandami has passed a law that makes operations unsustainable in NYC. This unrealistic expectation jeopardizes the livelihoods of thousands of drivers and their families in NYC. Please write Mayor Mandami and demand that he repeals Law 863 and restore the jobs of thousands of people. Until then we cannot offer you a ride within NYC limits. Good luck!”
They could simultaneously pay their drivers to protest city hall.
They have the ability to create a protest that would cause most politicians to cave. I don’t know if Mandami would cave, but it certainly would hurt his image - and thus hurt the image of all Democratic Socialists and similar progressive movements.
Conservatism cares a lot about people having jobs. Not about whether they are paid living wages.
the state has the power to suppress that.
i don’t know if mamdani alone does, but point is their profits are huge and they could bring prices down or salaries up if they wanted (or were forced) to.
The state has the power to suppress what?
To be clear though, my argument has nothing to do with the feasibility or responsibility of the government to regulate Lyft/Uber into paying living wages.
My argument is that Mandami is building a movement/coalition through paths of least resistance and sweeping incremental changes as opposed to highly targeted legislative changes.
Biden did wipe out student debt, but because the courts were packed, his efforts were nullified. Had the groundwork been laid first (replacing the courts) then this life changing legislation would have passed. In order to replace the courts, there would need to be a coalition built supporting the change. It’s great to shoot for the moon, but if our progressive spaceship blows up on the way to the moon, our progressive politicians will have a track record of getting nothing accomplished - just like the lazy sacks of shit that are the true enemies of the state: Mitch McConnell, Chuck Schumer, etc.
If we want the moon, and we deserve the moon, then we need to be OK with taking the path of least resistance, getting the easy wins, and building a coalition.
i mean yeah, mamdani is a socdem.
Got it. Youre on the all or nothing boat to hell for everyone.
They wouldn’t even need to pull out, they’d pass the increase in costs to the consumers (the riders), and they’ll make it very clear that it’s Mamdani’s fault their ride is so expensive now.
Except Trump only criticizes and mocks stuff. Never says “this is a win for the people” but “I won”. Mamdani isnt talking about himself at all and making a point about how corporations were stealing using the old system and he is making things fair. Is tipping good? Fuck no. But at least the workers are getting more value from their work without capital hoarders lying to them now.
Tipping money isn’t going from the owner class to the working class. It’s just going from workers to other workers. Fundamentally this fixes nothing and if anything tipping culture should be abolished not expanded.
Agreed that tipping should be abolished but you’re missing the problem that Mamdani is addressing. He’s making it harder for the owners to lie to the workers. He is forcing them to follow the laws set forth now so when the laws are changed they have to follow the law or be found liable, which is scary for owners.
One lie will be replaced by another.
Door dash will become more expensive as a “reaction” to this (reaction being an excuse their executives use)
MamdaniDidThis.sticker
Suddenly the former affordability mayor is replaced by an anti-immigrant pro-cop mayor that preaches all about the plight of the white person’s pocketbook and who’s to blame for rising prices, but in a more New Yorker-acceptable tone.
That’s exactly the problem, he shouldn’t be merely fiddling the knobs of the system to make it slightly less horrible he should be advocating for demolishing it and building a new one.
You can also do both at the same time but he doesn’t seem to be interested in the latter at all. He is a pressure release valve, he’ll get some concessions out of the ruling class but nothing is going to result in systemic change and when inevitably he loses public support either due to being unable to resolve some contradiction inherent in the system and/or being victim of a propaganda effort he’ll be replaced by some shitbag that’s going to reverse all the good he did.
This happened time and time again throughout history but people like you are still going to be yelling “but anything more is unrealistic” even as the we all burn from climate change.
Burning down the system sounds great until you’re starving in a mountain of your own waste.
I agree the current system is for shit and needs to be done away with entirely, but society is a little more complicated than Legos; smashing it down to start again costs a lot more than just time and even money.
Fiddling the knobs to make it manageable, proving he can do something in NYC of all places with all of that inertia, then possibly taking his platform bigger since he is a freshman politician fighting a 250 year old established system?
I’m not saying he’s perfect or above criticism. I’m also saying we can still be pragmatic.
Wow can’t believe Marx never thought of this, he literally just said everything would be perfect the very next day can’t believe he lied to me.
The kind of pragmatic you’re supporting here is never going to adequately reform or incrementally replace the current system. I know this because it was tried many many times by even more radical social democrats than Mamdani and it never worked. To me revolution is the most pragmatic thing you can do.
I’m not expecting miracles from this guy I know he’s just a mayor even if it is one of the most important cities in the US and arguably the world but the way he’s speaking in a typical weaselly Democrat manner and by doing dumb shit like this doesn’t really make me super confident of his future success.
While I agree they should be dismantled This is not what any mainstream politician will do, anyone who will be elected in current American politics will be a reformist. I personally believe that we SHOULD be criticizing him and the other DSA candidates AS SOCIALISTS and not simply hand wave criticism away because they won’t simply attempt to abolish the police on their first day as Mayor. So while I criticize people like Tlaib, Omar, Mamdani, AOC as socialists it does not mean that their reformist views are completely lost on me… Of course I’d rather have a million Ilhan Omars and Mamdanis instead of McCarthys… however not being McCarty does not absolve them and does not make them socialist… I hope I’m clear