As I suspected, this is just anarcho-cynicism: human nature is evil, there is zero difference between any nations, everything is the same, nothing matters, etc etc.
Human nature isn’t evil, it’s dumb. We can only focus on what’s in front of us because we’re inherently biased towards the self. That’s the source of billionaires, wealth inequality, and the Iron Law of Oligarchy. Humans are very much capable of overcoming this issue, but to do so we have to acknowledge that it is an issue. Putting your fingers in your ears and saying “my team knows the way” isn’t going to help anyone. Especially when it’s obvious that your team does NOT have a handle on these issues either.
I disagree that there is such thing as evil. It’s a distancing tactic for people to give space between the horrors they know humanity can do and what they believe that they’re capable of. It’s just a knock-on from tribalism and othering.
Pretending that my argument is about what you want to talk about instead of what I’m actually saying is cowardice. Like I said, China is next up which is why I’m using them as the example. But since you’re going to sit on an irrelevant thing in an attempt to make me appear like I can’t come up with an example, here are the concerning things about China right now.
They have massive income inequality. Second most billionaires of any country in the world.
They favor creating national cohesion by reducing differences between populations in their country, rather than creating a unifying national identity aimed towards some goal.
They create treaties with poorer countries that boil down to “we’ll develop the infrastructure to extract this resource in exchange for getting the extracted resource”, which is eerily close to early colonization tactics.
They have empirical ambitions on sovereign (or formerly sovereign) territories that they consider to belong to them (Tibet, Taiwan, Hong Kong)
I don’t think these are unique to China or even particularly egregious, but they are signs that if China gets on top they’re going to do what every other country does when they get on top. Use it to benefit their citizens at the cost of everyone else.
You mean to say imperial ambitions, not empirical ambitions.
E: also you’re not using that word right.
If you’re open to taking some criticism, it seems like you have a media based understanding of the world. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, we all internalize stuff from media, but you’re talking to people who tend to have an understanding that’s rooted in study as opposed to media and who have a communist perspective that reenforces their understanding because communists love writing books about stuff almost as much as they love reading books about stuff.
Once you get hit with the ol’ tankie wall of links, consider clicking on some of them. It’s easy to see someone posting a mess of links in response to you as an argumentation strategy, but it’s actually an education strategy.
disagree that there is such thing as evil. It’s a distancing tactic for people to give space between the horrors they know humanity can do and what they believe that they’re capable of. It’s just a knock-on from tribalism and othering.
I don’t think anyone is referring to evil as some sort of ghostly spectre that forces people to do things. It’s a descriptive word that is used to describe actions of people or groups of people.
Yeah, a description that is given to others that we can then use to justify doing bad things to them. I’m not saying it’s a mythological force or others treat it as such. I’m saying that it’s a thought terminating cliché that lets us skirt around deeply thinking about why someone else is doing something.
America is evil
Empire is evil
Capitalists are evil
Oligarchy is evil
Things we would both agree to be true. That doesn’t change the fact that they are more than just “evil”. By labeling them as such, I can say they’re deserving of scorn and hatred and can safely be placed somewhere away from my identity. I no longer have to think about them because they are evil and far away from me, since I’m not evil.
I’ve seen Marxist Leninists fall into this trap as well. Even in this discussion. I bring up concerns of oligarchy, they say that that’s minimalized capitalism so it’s “evil contained”. But the problem is that oligarchy and capitalism might be related, but they’re not the same thing. Oligarchy pops up everywhere (literally called The Iron Rule of Oligarchy) and isn’t caused by capitalism, it’s just that capitalism is rife with it. They treat the two evils as being related because they must be because they’re evil.
But like. What have they actually done that is so scary?
They are not white, reeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaally scary!!!
Please don’t strawman. Thanks
Removed by mod
So you don’t have an example.
As I suspected, this is just anarcho-cynicism: human nature is evil, there is zero difference between any nations, everything is the same, nothing matters, etc etc.
Human nature isn’t evil, it’s dumb. We can only focus on what’s in front of us because we’re inherently biased towards the self. That’s the source of billionaires, wealth inequality, and the Iron Law of Oligarchy. Humans are very much capable of overcoming this issue, but to do so we have to acknowledge that it is an issue. Putting your fingers in your ears and saying “my team knows the way” isn’t going to help anyone. Especially when it’s obvious that your team does NOT have a handle on these issues either.
I disagree that there is such thing as evil. It’s a distancing tactic for people to give space between the horrors they know humanity can do and what they believe that they’re capable of. It’s just a knock-on from tribalism and othering.
Pretending that my argument is about what you want to talk about instead of what I’m actually saying is cowardice. Like I said, China is next up which is why I’m using them as the example. But since you’re going to sit on an irrelevant thing in an attempt to make me appear like I can’t come up with an example, here are the concerning things about China right now.
They have massive income inequality. Second most billionaires of any country in the world.
They favor creating national cohesion by reducing differences between populations in their country, rather than creating a unifying national identity aimed towards some goal.
They create treaties with poorer countries that boil down to “we’ll develop the infrastructure to extract this resource in exchange for getting the extracted resource”, which is eerily close to early colonization tactics.
They have empirical ambitions on sovereign (or formerly sovereign) territories that they consider to belong to them (Tibet, Taiwan, Hong Kong)
I don’t think these are unique to China or even particularly egregious, but they are signs that if China gets on top they’re going to do what every other country does when they get on top. Use it to benefit their citizens at the cost of everyone else.
You mean to say imperial ambitions, not empirical ambitions.
E: also you’re not using that word right.
If you’re open to taking some criticism, it seems like you have a media based understanding of the world. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, we all internalize stuff from media, but you’re talking to people who tend to have an understanding that’s rooted in study as opposed to media and who have a communist perspective that reenforces their understanding because communists love writing books about stuff almost as much as they love reading books about stuff.
Once you get hit with the ol’ tankie wall of links, consider clicking on some of them. It’s easy to see someone posting a mess of links in response to you as an argumentation strategy, but it’s actually an education strategy.
😏
It’s okay that I called all people dumb because I didn’t call them evil.
I don’t think anyone is referring to evil as some sort of ghostly spectre that forces people to do things. It’s a descriptive word that is used to describe actions of people or groups of people.
Yeah, a description that is given to others that we can then use to justify doing bad things to them. I’m not saying it’s a mythological force or others treat it as such. I’m saying that it’s a thought terminating cliché that lets us skirt around deeply thinking about why someone else is doing something.
America is evil
Empire is evil
Capitalists are evil
Oligarchy is evil
Things we would both agree to be true. That doesn’t change the fact that they are more than just “evil”. By labeling them as such, I can say they’re deserving of scorn and hatred and can safely be placed somewhere away from my identity. I no longer have to think about them because they are evil and far away from me, since I’m not evil.
I’ve seen Marxist Leninists fall into this trap as well. Even in this discussion. I bring up concerns of oligarchy, they say that that’s minimalized capitalism so it’s “evil contained”. But the problem is that oligarchy and capitalism might be related, but they’re not the same thing. Oligarchy pops up everywhere (literally called The Iron Rule of Oligarchy) and isn’t caused by capitalism, it’s just that capitalism is rife with it. They treat the two evils as being related because they must be because they’re evil.
Who? What?
Have you actually talked to a Marxist. And understood what they say. For you would not be saying such nonsense if you had!