Yeah, a description that is given to others that we can then use to justify doing bad things to them. I’m not saying it’s a mythological force or others treat it as such. I’m saying that it’s a thought terminating cliché that lets us skirt around deeply thinking about why someone else is doing something.
America is evil
Empire is evil
Capitalists are evil
Oligarchy is evil
Things we would both agree to be true. That doesn’t change the fact that they are more than just “evil”. By labeling them as such, I can say they’re deserving of scorn and hatred and can safely be placed somewhere away from my identity. I no longer have to think about them because they are evil and far away from me, since I’m not evil.
I’ve seen Marxist Leninists fall into this trap as well. Even in this discussion. I bring up concerns of oligarchy, they say that that’s minimalized capitalism so it’s “evil contained”. But the problem is that oligarchy and capitalism might be related, but they’re not the same thing. Oligarchy pops up everywhere (literally called The Iron Rule of Oligarchy) and isn’t caused by capitalism, it’s just that capitalism is rife with it. They treat the two evils as being related because they must be because they’re evil.
Yeah, a description that is given to others that we can then use to justify doing bad things to them.
“It’s not the people committing the inhumane and cruel acts society collectively describe as evil who are actually evil. It’s the people using the word evil to describe their actions who are really at fault.”
That’s about as deep as a spoon. The word is not a spell that automatically ends conversations, it doesn’t automatically magic people’s brains into believing any accusations. If I called Mr Rogers the most evil man who had ever existed, you would scoff. Because it doesn’t resonate with the truth it is easily disregarded as any other false accusation. The reason the label bothers you is because there is at least some truth to saying capitalism is evil, or America is evil.
That doesn’t change the fact that they are more than just “evil”. By labeling them as such, I can say they’re deserving of scorn and hatred and can safely be placed somewhere away from my identity. I no longer have to think about them because they are evil and far away from me, since I’m not evil.
What? Maybe you are projecting some personal quirks on the descriptor evil, but most people do not treat words like magical commands. It’s not a damned word of power, it’s an adjective. Do you object to al adjective, or just specifically the word evil, like some kind of shitty holy paladin?
Does this logic work…? I see a guy punch someone in the face. "That was violent, but I’m not violent so I don’t have to think about that anymore. "
I’ve seen Marxist Leninists fall into this trap as well. Even in this discussion. I bring up concerns of oligarchy, they say that that’s minimalized capitalism so it’s “evil contained”.
You do know that we are discussing topics in an open forum and not playing dungeons and dragons, right?
Oligarchy pops up everywhere (literally called The Iron Rule of Oligarchy) and isn’t caused by capitalism, it’s just that capitalism is rife with it.
The iron rule of oligarchy is political theory even if it labels itself as law. It also only pertains to democracies, especially liberal democracies as capitalism helps organize hierarchy to extract wealth from labour.
People aren’t falling into some trap, they just don’t agree with your claims. There is a reason Marxist countries are described as a dictatorship of the proletariat. There is some hierarchy organized democratically, but it is better insulated from oligarchic forces that work to influence the democratic process through the same economic controls built into liberal democracies.
They treat the two evils as being related because they must be because they’re evil.
Because liberal democracies are built around a capitalist economy, and are meant to be oligarchic in nature. What do you think the Senate was created for? Not all oligarchy are capitalist economies, but all capitalist countries are at least oligarchic or sometimes dictatorships.
Actually you have to stop talking and thinking, because I cast Word of Power “Evil”, and it hit. You have successfully been labeled as “Evil” and are now silenced for 1d4 turns. You are also now vulnerable to Holly Word “Liberty” for the duration of the silence.
The “Iron Rule of Oligarchy” was created by an Italian socialist-turned-fascist (literally went from German SPD to eventually Italian fascism). It isn’t a real law, it’s an idealist argument against democratic institutions.
A Marxist saying that class is more important than idealist notions of power is not at all contradictory.
Yeah, a description that is given to others that we can then use to justify doing bad things to them. I’m not saying it’s a mythological force or others treat it as such. I’m saying that it’s a thought terminating cliché that lets us skirt around deeply thinking about why someone else is doing something.
America is evil
Empire is evil
Capitalists are evil
Oligarchy is evil
Things we would both agree to be true. That doesn’t change the fact that they are more than just “evil”. By labeling them as such, I can say they’re deserving of scorn and hatred and can safely be placed somewhere away from my identity. I no longer have to think about them because they are evil and far away from me, since I’m not evil.
I’ve seen Marxist Leninists fall into this trap as well. Even in this discussion. I bring up concerns of oligarchy, they say that that’s minimalized capitalism so it’s “evil contained”. But the problem is that oligarchy and capitalism might be related, but they’re not the same thing. Oligarchy pops up everywhere (literally called The Iron Rule of Oligarchy) and isn’t caused by capitalism, it’s just that capitalism is rife with it. They treat the two evils as being related because they must be because they’re evil.
“It’s not the people committing the inhumane and cruel acts society collectively describe as evil who are actually evil. It’s the people using the word evil to describe their actions who are really at fault.”
That’s about as deep as a spoon. The word is not a spell that automatically ends conversations, it doesn’t automatically magic people’s brains into believing any accusations. If I called Mr Rogers the most evil man who had ever existed, you would scoff. Because it doesn’t resonate with the truth it is easily disregarded as any other false accusation. The reason the label bothers you is because there is at least some truth to saying capitalism is evil, or America is evil.
What? Maybe you are projecting some personal quirks on the descriptor evil, but most people do not treat words like magical commands. It’s not a damned word of power, it’s an adjective. Do you object to al adjective, or just specifically the word evil, like some kind of shitty holy paladin?
Does this logic work…? I see a guy punch someone in the face. "That was violent, but I’m not violent so I don’t have to think about that anymore. "
You do know that we are discussing topics in an open forum and not playing dungeons and dragons, right?
The iron rule of oligarchy is political theory even if it labels itself as law. It also only pertains to democracies, especially liberal democracies as capitalism helps organize hierarchy to extract wealth from labour.
People aren’t falling into some trap, they just don’t agree with your claims. There is a reason Marxist countries are described as a dictatorship of the proletariat. There is some hierarchy organized democratically, but it is better insulated from oligarchic forces that work to influence the democratic process through the same economic controls built into liberal democracies.
Because liberal democracies are built around a capitalist economy, and are meant to be oligarchic in nature. What do you think the Senate was created for? Not all oligarchy are capitalist economies, but all capitalist countries are at least oligarchic or sometimes dictatorships.
Who? What?
Have you actually talked to a Marxist. And understood what they say. For you would not be saying such nonsense if you had!
Actually you have to stop talking and thinking, because I cast Word of Power “Evil”, and it hit. You have successfully been labeled as “Evil” and are now silenced for 1d4 turns. You are also now vulnerable to Holly Word “Liberty” for the duration of the silence.
https://lemmy.ml/comment/26611987
Don’t no true Scotsman, please
The “Iron Rule of Oligarchy” was created by an Italian socialist-turned-fascist (literally went from German SPD to eventually Italian fascism). It isn’t a real law, it’s an idealist argument against democratic institutions.
A Marxist saying that class is more important than idealist notions of power is not at all contradictory.
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