Flight instructor: “Do your best, lol.”
Man, I thought i disappointed some teachers.
story about suicide
Entertainment section
This sort of this should get websites permabanned from Lemmy as a source.
Fuck you, dexerto
My name’s not dexerto and stop telling me to fuck off! I’m sick of everyone ganging up on me!
Incredibly cruel. What a monster.
Mens mental health is already a disaster, but in the airline industry it’s made worse by the fact that you can lose your piloting license just by seeking help. This is a tragic story. I’ve joked about this story elsewhere, but I’ve learned more about it since then.
Álvarez later took off in another aircraft to search for Bertazzo and reportedly found his body in a field around 15 to 20 minutes after the alarm was raised
she got back in a plane RIGHT after that to find his body. damn.(edit: my dumb ass misread, see reply)what a fucked up situation
Álvarez is the company director, not the student
Eduardo Álvarez, director of Flying Parrot Córdoba, praised the student for keeping control of the plane during an extreme emergency.
ah shit my bad
I shit my bed, too
“They expect one of us in the wreckage brother!”
Why the fuck is this under “/entertainment” on that site?
Are you not entertained?
Not with a porn that starts this way. I quite frankly couldn’t finish
I will never understand why people do things like this. You want to end your life? Cool. Why do you feel this need to traumatize and/or murder others in the process?
Also really, really wish we as a species took mental health more seriously.
I imagine it’s more like an intrusive thought when he was vulnerable. He was likely having a bad time, feeling desperate and suicidal with no help. Then the thought came that he could just open the door, so he did. No planning, no consideration, no real thought once triggered. Other people just weren’t relevant
Arguably if you have the wherewithal to consider other people, there’s at least a sliver of something to live for
And furthermore, this makes the other person a suspect in your death. Just a super shitty way to do it all around.
A lot of people include “I don’t give a shit about anyone else” in their “I don’t give a shit [about myself]” suicidal thoughts.
- Ex-cop, dealt with lots of suicide-by-cop attempts and investigated a lot of suicides
When you get into that head space, you don’t care about anything at all. The worst postpartum depression I had even made me stop caring about my kids. Then you dissociate and there’s very little of what makes you, you, left. When I think back on it it’s like I was trapped in my mind and someone else took over.
Maybe that was the plan, for some reason… Hatred against their family or something?
If you think that’s even a glimmer of a concern in the mind of a suicidal person, I urge you to think further about it. If anything, this man knew he wasn’t condemning the student as well.
If someone’s so traumatised as to end their life this way, they’re probably not very concerned of the consequences. Not excusing this, just trying to explain it for myself.
Yeah, whatever driver someone to this, they just want out at that point.
Maybe the idea was that he could end his life, without risking crashing the plane? Why he chose this method specifically will, unfortunately, never be answered.
Yup, no way to know. Maybe he had a psychotic break in that moment and didn’t ever expect to do it. I just have a concentrated hatred for people who do these things and take innocent people with them.
I have past attempts and I agree, it’s the most selfish thing you can do. Get help people, it can get better.
As a country. Metal health in America is bullshit. Other countries take it way more seriously.
The story says this happened in Argentina.
Yes, I was specifically talking about America. I don’t know how mental health is in Argentina.
Edit: Not entirely sure why I’m being downvoted here. Why would I talk about mental health care in Argentina? I’ve never sent foot into the country and the only thing I know about it is that the city of Buenos Aires is in it.
You’re probably being dogpiled for perceived Ameri-centrism.
The irony, in my mind, is that while you were kinda veering the discussion in a different direction, per your edit you explicitly did so because you have no knowledge of mental healthcare in Argentina which is very much not Ameri-centrism.
If I had to put words to most of the downvotes, they would probably say “fuck you, this is a discussion about Argentina’s mental healthcare, not mental healthcare more broadly,” which again in a bit of irony, detracts from the discussion of how to address mental health crises.
I think it’s just annoyance at the idiomatic use of “America” when the discussion is about the Americas.
Huh, never considered that.
It’s hard to get into the minds of a sea of semi-anonymous voters to determine their motivations. I’m sure they all had their own reasons, and yours may be one of them.
The minds of the sea of semi-anonymous lemmings is likely hard to understand due to endemic parochialism in the USA.
not any better
Ah, the double-down. Interesting gambit
Doubling down on what? Do you know what “doubling down” actually means?
The comment I replied to was talking about humanity as a species. I responded by narrowing the discussion to individual countries because mental health care varies dramatically from one country to another. Some countries have excellent mental health systems; others don’t. The United States, in my view, has a particularly poor one.
The fact that the original incident occurred in Argentina is irrelevant to the point I was making.
More importantly, I can only speak from my own experience. I’ve lived in the United States for the overwhelming majority of my life, so that’s the system I know. Why would I pretend to speak authoritatively about countries I’ve never lived in?
Is there an American defaultism community on Lemmy yet?
I think we really need it lol
Yes, I was specifically talking about America.
“Authorities initially looked at whether a mechanical issue with the aircraft may have played a role, but local reports say investigators are now treating the case as a possible suicide.”
this sounds like a suicide but… now hear me out. what if it was the hydraulic systems fault?
Authorities initially looked at whether a mechanical issue with the aircraft may have played a role
I think they may have meant if there was a gas leak or something that might have affected his mind? Afaik there were some flight and diving accidents where that was a contributing factor.
But seriously …… a more plausible path is that instructors sometimes create interruptions to ensure you know how to focus on the aircraft. My instructors would open windows at inopportune times: little did they know but it caused me to fly an aircraft with a canopy that can slide back during flight, a “convertible”. In aircraft where you can, I’ve definite heard of instructors opening doors during flight.
The plausible accident is exactly that: instructor opening a door as part of emergency training. Of course it’s much harder to explain lack of seatbelt, or how he got up from his seat
You have to be able to handle a door or window opening in flight because there can be mechanical failures where that happens. And if we’re stretching things, the student pilot panicking could cause a sudden jerk of the wheel, throwing an unrestrained passenger out. It could happen. Extremely unlikely but it could …… except the seatbelt.
What if it was…Murder?!?
His shift was over
Clock out time is clock out time, especially if you get in trouble for overtime.
- Me, fired over an overtime dispute
Just a quibble.
They said the instructor died ‘mid-flight’
Technically, he died at the end of HIS flight.
Hardly a flight, more like a fall really… :-P
Its not the fall that kills you, its the abrupt high velocity meeting with ground.
Technically accurate!
With style!
Maybe he did mid air from a heart attack
Doubt it. A smaller plane will be around 15,000ft which would mean the fall would be about 1 and a half minutes to impact. I also doubt they were at that altitude so it would be less than that. Unless it was fast and massive I dont think you can die that quick from a heart attack. Passing out would be the best case scenerio, but even that is probably low chance as well.
FYI- much lower. At 15,000’ you need oxygen (or pressurized cabin), which most small planes do not have. I don’t think you’d need a supercharger yet, but many engines would be struggling
I was a passenger on a small plane where they only had oxygen for the pilots. I believe it was at 15,000 ‘. It was surreal: it didn’t take long for the blackness to start closing in from the sides until I could only see a small tunnel in front of me. I don’t know if I should have been worried for my life but I clearly would not have been capable of flying.
A standard air breathing small Plane without supercharger or other altitude adaptation, can take a long time and a lot of fuel to get up to 15,000’ as the engine gets weaker with thinner air. It’s generally not worth trying to go this high unless you’re in a longer trip (the article doesn’t say anything about the plane though so if it had a supercharger and oxygen, then disregard this. Nothing I say applies to anything with a turbine)
One of the most common training aircraft is a Cessna 152. Google tells me it has a ceiling of 14,700’. It can’t even reach 15,000’ (depending on air pressure)
I was about to say, pretty sure he died when he suddenly stopped flying near the ground!
Bertazzo had completed another lesson earlier that day without incident
Without… jumping to his death…? Sometimes this standard journalistic phrasing just kills me. I shouldn’t be laughing
During the flight, Bertazzo allegedly told Rosario, “You know what to do” before removing his headset, arranging his belongings, taking off his seatbelt and exiting the aircraft.
… ‘exiting the aircraft’.
Yeah that’s… accurate, but seems like perhaps an overly neutral verb to use.
Yep, just stepping out for a bit, to get some air.
Fuck me, this is an actual dark comedy skit, I can swear I’ve seen some skits from back in the day where more or less this is the plot.
I guess all I can say is that I wish I could give Rosario a hug, what an awful thing to be forced into.
Probably didn’t even have the courtesy to close the door behind him
Well I suppose… at least that’s not as bad as slamming it angrily.
“Without incident” means literally nothing remarkable happened. For example, if he had been behaving erratically or threatened suicide during the earlier flight, those would be incidents that should’ve tipped someone off that they should intervene and not let this guy back up.
If there had been an incident, further investigation would be warranted to determine if this was preventable, and if so, who could have prevented it. The journalist is specifically highlighting that no one but the pilot appears to be at fault right now.
There’s also a huge issue in the aviation industry at least in the US where pilots do not disclose mental health concerns because it results in an immediate grounding - which means loss of pay.
Instructors are often also new pilots who use teaching to build up flight hours until they can land a carrier job, and also have a boatload of debt from their training. So, they’re effectively stuck with trying to just deal with it, or face bankruptcy.
Xyla Foxlin is a youtuber and amateur pilot who had faced a mental health issue and was grounded for quite some time, she has a few videos talking about it.
because it results in an immediate grounding - which means loss of pay.
I can’t think of a more macabre example of why making people’s livelihood depend on their health is a bad idea. That also applies to other jobs, where a creeping loss in performance might not immediately kill, but far more so in professions where lives are placed in the care of someone who can’t afford to be honest about their reliability.
“He’s taught many lessons, and this is the first time this type of incident ever happened. Everyone was shocked, he’d never done that before.”
I’m so glad I’m not alone in finding this so funny.
What? He’d never died during a previous lesson?
I.e. he waited for someone he knew could land on their own
I think it’s good they clarified, so we know he hasn’t made a habit of jumping out, just to be swept up and caught by all his other trainees
> Is a licensed fly instructor
> Can not flyThose who can, do…
(Side note: I’m a language teacher for a language I began learning as an adult in a country where it is the national language, so, while I don’t support the quote in general or apply it to any other teachers, it’s definitely something that my brain sometimes snipes at me during moments of impostor syndrome)
I know that quote as well and I think that this quote is very bad. It shows an aversion to learning in general.
No wonder that the US population is so poorly educated.
That’s not the spirit of the quote, though it’s not entirely your fault. It’s better reflected in the original, attributed to Aristotle: “Those who can, do; those who understand, teach.”
There are a whole host of reasons someone may not be able to “do”. Maybe they used to effectively “do”, but got hurt, or just got too old. It could be the simple recognition that teaching is the “do”, because of your deep understanding and ability to communicate and inspire.
It recognizes a conscious choice not to stubbornly attempt or continue to “do”, but to instead take a back seat and direct your energy into others who will “do” more effectively than you ever could. It’s about wisdom, self-awareness, and taking the long view. You are readying the next generation of do-ers, passing the torch, perhaps multiplying your efforts and extending your life’s impact further into the future.
So it is basically a misquote?
I think it comes from jobs where a physical limitation prevents people from “doing,” like retired athletes or really experienced surgeons who develop a tremor. Or even just people who no longer have the physical strength to do manual labor, but have a repertoire of techniques that will help others do it more effectively.
I agree that the quote doesn’t apply to teachers in general.
The US isn’t especially poorly educated on average.
The US is so unequally educated for many reasons, but the biggest one is the cost, which is mostly due to (as always) Reagan. He defunded K-12 education and public universities. When universities raised their prices in response, the government, which had been offering some need based student loans regardless of major since the sixties, greatly expanded the program, partially privatizing it. In order to make loans to very young people without immediate employment prospects a less risky investment, the loans were made unable to be discharged in bankruptcy. The increase in available loans allowed universities to further increase costs without risking pricing their applicant pools out. That became a vicious cycle and the tuitions and loans became so bloated that many graduates start with six figures in debt. It’s not a good deal for a lot of students, and it’s a worse deal, the less stable the finances of your family, unfortunately.
I don’t think Bertazzo died “mid-flight”
Mid-landing, really
Rosario: “Wait! What the fuck are you doing?!”
Bertazzo: “I must go! My people need meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!”
