Moment of reckoning for ‘Mr Nice Guy’ of music, who embraced Macklemore’s political cred only for pro-Palestine rapper to be dropped under pressure from billionaire
I really don’t understand the average person’s attachment to Israel, like I just don’t get it at all. It’s been obvious since this all started that it is a genocide. There’s no argument to be made against that. So why is picking a side so difficult?
Also, small rant: What is up with the world supporting Ukraine right off the bat but not Palestine?? Is it really as simple as racism? How can you support one but not the other?
There’s a weird thing in evangelical circles that espouses undying support for Israel because in Revelations (I think) says that Jesus will come back when all of “God’s chosen people” return to Judea. So you get a lot of traditions lifted from Judaism, like the passover feast and shofars. I grew up in the Assembly of God church and all of the Deacons, my dad included, owned a shofar and would blow them when “the spirit was moving”. That’s where almost all of the Israeli support in the US comes from, in my opinion.
You know what’s funny? It didn’t fully click to me just how methodical and devious Israel is until I realized that there were cookbooks in the 30s to teach European women moving to Palestine how to cook Palestinian food. How “Israeali” food is the only valid example of cultural appropriation I have ever heard. Literally erasing a people down to their fucking cuisine.
I mean what kind of people do that? How sick do you have to be? Yeah, genocide I know of course. The settlements of course. But to coopt food? I mean that is fucking sick in the head to a new level. I can’t explain it. I know it sounds ridiculous compared to lives being lost and land stolen. But there is something just so calculated in that simple act of taking something mundane even and calling it your own.
Speaking as a 47 year old former lib: The propaganda worked quite well on me until recently, like ten or so years ago.
If you do not look into it and educate yourself on the reality, it is easy to believe the idea that Israel is allowed to “defend itself” because, after the Holocaust, the Jews got together and decided not to take any more shit. The idea is that they occupied an empty desert in Palestine, called it Israel, and got attacked from all sides by the surrounding Arab states and would happily stop shooting if the Arabs stopped attacking them.
The second layer of propaganda says that it’s not that simple, that Israel kills more in response to these attacks than they should, but it’s still a complex situation and we westerners shouldn’t meddle with it because we are ignorant.
The truth finished landing on me around Oct 7, since I’d spent years at that point listening to actual Palestinian people, studying history, etc and knew that Israel was a brutal colonial project of apartheid that was becoming a proper theocracy, but was momentarily fooled by the false reports of brutality by Hamas fighters.
The first hospital bombing ended all sympathy for Israel.
You are glossing over the fact that Hamas killed and kidnapped Israelian civilians. As far as reasons for war go “We want to free the hostages” is a pretty convincing one. Such a reason did not exist for Ukraine. Also I believe Ukraine is supported by “the West”, that is, a large part of the world does not care about Ukraine.
Obviously supporting the Israelian genocide in Gaza is stupid. But picking either Israel or Palestine as a side is problematic, especially if you assume Gaza to be controlled by Hamas: Both sides want the complete destruction of their “enemy” (although only one side has the means to actually achieve that). People don’t want to be affiliated with Hamas either.
The side I would like to pick is the one against nationalism, religious zealots and mindless revenge. If both countries could get rid of the war mongers that continue to pour oil on the fire, the people could actually live in peace.
Just to be clear: I support a two state solution with a free Palestine and a free Israel coexisting in peace.
According to the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (as reported by AA.com.tr), approximately 134,000 Palestinians have been killed since 1948 due to Israeli occupation and conflicts.
This figure includes deaths from the Nakba (1948), subsequent conflicts, and ongoing violence. For context, the Gaza war (since October 7, 2023) has resulted in over 71,800 additional Palestinian deaths, per United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) data [source: UN OCHA].
Giving Israel even a hint of justification for the genocide, destruction of a state, and invasion, anexation, and occupation of a state, from the Hamas attack is like the Nazis justifying the holocaust with the Kristalnacht. Literally.
Israel is a settler colonial power continuing colonization, Palestinians are the victim of it. It is simple as that. Other resistance movements committed ton of atrocities too, despite the allies atrocities we still by live they was the right side to support in world-war 2. The PA recognized israel and ended resistance, Israel thanked them by building more colonies. Hamas can’t survive after the end of colonization
Meh i agree that the situations aren’t the same but the hostage situation explanation just falls flat on its face as soon as you imagine people in your own country being involved on the side of the terrorists. We would not excuse bombing a whole fucking (white)country because some of them have taken hostages.
I fully agree that there are objective differences between the two conflicts but racism definetly plays a big part here if not bigger than the actual differences.
Because most people do not follow the news very closely. They learn enough to form an opinion, often against their will, and then try their hardest to pay attention to things that don’t torpedo their mental health.
I don’t have a source to point at but I think the first trump admin, followed by covid, broke people. There is no good news and no clear action to take to make the bad news stop. So people tune out. Some news slips through with their FYP or whatever but even then what they get is predigested and filtered so that the emotion hits hard and goes away fast. The most popular form of media is designed not to inform, so people are not informed.
I’m suspicious that there’s been a long term campaign to whitewash Israel for decades in western media. I don’t think I was really around for most of it, but the way that mostly older people I’ve spoken to regarding this with otherwise perfectly rational options on human rights get really weird about Israel. Most people my age or younger either don’t care or are horrified at what’s going on.
It feels like I’m encountering people that have a lot of unearned good faith in Israel and figure their actions must have justification. Part of it obviously would be WW2, but there’s a big weird unaccounted for goodwill that I could only assume would be a large scale whitewashing campaign.
There are people I personally recall saying things like “filthy israeli” and calling non white people regardless of their ethnicity “[nationality] terrorist” with usually the wrong nationality being called out, all the stereotypical jewish slurs, etc. yet now loudly “stand with israel” or call standing up for basic human rights antisemitism even though they never gave half a shit in the past and hated them just as much as everyone else different from them. Israel really played the long game.
I really don’t understand the average person’s attachment to Israel, like I just don’t get it at all. It’s been obvious since this all started that it is a genocide. There’s no argument to be made against that. So why is picking a side so difficult?
Also, small rant: What is up with the world supporting Ukraine right off the bat but not Palestine?? Is it really as simple as racism? How can you support one but not the other?
Propaganda, very effective propaganda…
There’s a weird thing in evangelical circles that espouses undying support for Israel because in Revelations (I think) says that Jesus will come back when all of “God’s chosen people” return to Judea. So you get a lot of traditions lifted from Judaism, like the passover feast and shofars. I grew up in the Assembly of God church and all of the Deacons, my dad included, owned a shofar and would blow them when “the spirit was moving”. That’s where almost all of the Israeli support in the US comes from, in my opinion.
Hello, fellow A/G kid. My church didn’t have shofars – that actually sounds a lot cooler than just announcing that the spirit is moving.
I think you’re right about evangelical support for Israel. They think they’re hastening the End Times.
I’m so glad I got out of that entire scene. The rest of my youth group cohort are still faithful members, decades later.
You know what’s funny? It didn’t fully click to me just how methodical and devious Israel is until I realized that there were cookbooks in the 30s to teach European women moving to Palestine how to cook Palestinian food. How “Israeali” food is the only valid example of cultural appropriation I have ever heard. Literally erasing a people down to their fucking cuisine.
I mean what kind of people do that? How sick do you have to be? Yeah, genocide I know of course. The settlements of course. But to coopt food? I mean that is fucking sick in the head to a new level. I can’t explain it. I know it sounds ridiculous compared to lives being lost and land stolen. But there is something just so calculated in that simple act of taking something mundane even and calling it your own.
Speaking as a 47 year old former lib: The propaganda worked quite well on me until recently, like ten or so years ago.
If you do not look into it and educate yourself on the reality, it is easy to believe the idea that Israel is allowed to “defend itself” because, after the Holocaust, the Jews got together and decided not to take any more shit. The idea is that they occupied an empty desert in Palestine, called it Israel, and got attacked from all sides by the surrounding Arab states and would happily stop shooting if the Arabs stopped attacking them.
The second layer of propaganda says that it’s not that simple, that Israel kills more in response to these attacks than they should, but it’s still a complex situation and we westerners shouldn’t meddle with it because we are ignorant.
The truth finished landing on me around Oct 7, since I’d spent years at that point listening to actual Palestinian people, studying history, etc and knew that Israel was a brutal colonial project of apartheid that was becoming a proper theocracy, but was momentarily fooled by the false reports of brutality by Hamas fighters.
The first hospital bombing ended all sympathy for Israel.
What is a “former lib”?
Former neoliberal. Think msnbc or the Democratic Party establishment, roughly.
Disenchanted but still progressive, or turned conservative is my question.
This is what finished all doubt for me:
https://aoav.org.uk/2025/shot-in-the-head-american-doctors-bear-witness-to-the-atrocities-committed-by-the-idf-against-gazas-children/
Jesus christ, this is why Chaim Potok’s Chosen used to be mandatory high school reading
You are glossing over the fact that Hamas killed and kidnapped Israelian civilians. As far as reasons for war go “We want to free the hostages” is a pretty convincing one. Such a reason did not exist for Ukraine. Also I believe Ukraine is supported by “the West”, that is, a large part of the world does not care about Ukraine.
Obviously supporting the Israelian genocide in Gaza is stupid. But picking either Israel or Palestine as a side is problematic, especially if you assume Gaza to be controlled by Hamas: Both sides want the complete destruction of their “enemy” (although only one side has the means to actually achieve that). People don’t want to be affiliated with Hamas either.
The side I would like to pick is the one against nationalism, religious zealots and mindless revenge. If both countries could get rid of the war mongers that continue to pour oil on the fire, the people could actually live in peace.
Just to be clear: I support a two state solution with a free Palestine and a free Israel coexisting in peace.
Hamas killed Israeli civilians, with the help of Netanyahu and the Israeli government, intelligence, military, etc…
According to the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (as reported by AA.com.tr), approximately 134,000 Palestinians have been killed since 1948 due to Israeli occupation and conflicts.
This figure includes deaths from the Nakba (1948), subsequent conflicts, and ongoing violence. For context, the Gaza war (since October 7, 2023) has resulted in over 71,800 additional Palestinian deaths, per United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) data [source: UN OCHA].
Giving Israel even a hint of justification for the genocide, destruction of a state, and invasion, anexation, and occupation of a state, from the Hamas attack is like the Nazis justifying the holocaust with the Kristalnacht. Literally.
Israel is a settler colonial power continuing colonization, Palestinians are the victim of it. It is simple as that. Other resistance movements committed ton of atrocities too, despite the allies atrocities we still by live they was the right side to support in world-war 2. The PA recognized israel and ended resistance, Israel thanked them by building more colonies. Hamas can’t survive after the end of colonization
Meh i agree that the situations aren’t the same but the hostage situation explanation just falls flat on its face as soon as you imagine people in your own country being involved on the side of the terrorists. We would not excuse bombing a whole fucking (white)country because some of them have taken hostages.
I fully agree that there are objective differences between the two conflicts but racism definetly plays a big part here if not bigger than the actual differences.
https://aoav.org.uk/2025/shot-in-the-head-american-doctors-bear-witness-to-the-atrocities-committed-by-the-idf-against-gazas-children/
51 comments and 0 posts in 3y3m, and this is what you decide to comment? Hmm…
Which is somehow a controversial take for many.
Do you remember when Israel killed three hostages that were walking towards the IOF with their hands up?
No. Most people don’t.
Israel literally bombed and killed those hostages. How can anyone still believe this is about freeing hostages.
Because most people do not follow the news very closely. They learn enough to form an opinion, often against their will, and then try their hardest to pay attention to things that don’t torpedo their mental health.
I don’t have a source to point at but I think the first trump admin, followed by covid, broke people. There is no good news and no clear action to take to make the bad news stop. So people tune out. Some news slips through with their FYP or whatever but even then what they get is predigested and filtered so that the emotion hits hard and goes away fast. The most popular form of media is designed not to inform, so people are not informed.
I’m suspicious that there’s been a long term campaign to whitewash Israel for decades in western media. I don’t think I was really around for most of it, but the way that mostly older people I’ve spoken to regarding this with otherwise perfectly rational options on human rights get really weird about Israel. Most people my age or younger either don’t care or are horrified at what’s going on.
It feels like I’m encountering people that have a lot of unearned good faith in Israel and figure their actions must have justification. Part of it obviously would be WW2, but there’s a big weird unaccounted for goodwill that I could only assume would be a large scale whitewashing campaign.
There are people I personally recall saying things like “filthy israeli” and calling non white people regardless of their ethnicity “[nationality] terrorist” with usually the wrong nationality being called out, all the stereotypical jewish slurs, etc. yet now loudly “stand with israel” or call standing up for basic human rights antisemitism even though they never gave half a shit in the past and hated them just as much as everyone else different from them. Israel really played the long game.
Ukraine doesn’t have the equivalent Palestine>Hamas>Terrorism>Antisemitism cognitive chain established in most of the west.
So yes, as simple as racism, at base.
Biblical prophecy? They don’t give an actual eff about it otherwise.