You don’t get a pass because your 13 year olds of choice are japanese and drawn characters. It’s creepy as fuck and I am judging you for it.
You don’t get a pass because your 13 year olds of choice are japanese and drawn characters. It’s creepy as fuck and I am judging you for it.
I literally run a Mastodon server specifically for non-toxic English-first anime/etc fans and I understand where you’re coming from. I created the community for a lot of the same reasons
That said, you are projecting an extreme puritanical Western philosophy onto a culture that is dramatically different for deeply ingrained cultural reasons.
Teenage stories are prevalent because of the concept “seishun” (springtime of youth). Japanese culture is extremely rigid and conformist, and as a consequence highschool is viewed as the time in life where you have the most freedom to try new things, express yourself, and discover your passions. Watching teens experience their first love, for example, is a cathartic release for people who don’t have the freedom to make drastic changes to their identity anymore. It is a depiction of someone discovering a new identity, and embracing change.
“Kawaii” (cute) culture has deep roots in Shinto spiritualism. For a large part of Japanese history, due to mortality rates among children below the age of 7, children were literally considered not fully human until they reached a certain age. They were “close to the spirits” because they might be reclaimed by the spirit world at any time. This, along with some other tidbits, led to the trope where a spiritual being regresses to look childlike when they lose their spiritual power. It is “closer to the spirit realm”. And because there are many stories about being careful not to malign spirits, this became a reverence for childlike things.
Yes, especially among westerners, the are a lot of people with transgressive tendencies who gravitate towards the medium because it’s an easy mask for their predilections. But you would do well to more about the history of the culture and medium you’re attacking.
Because the way you present your position right now just makes you look like an ignorant westerner who didn’t bother to ask “why” before painting an entire culture with a single brush.
EDIT: Wanted to make sure I call out that there is plenty of anime with seriously problematic content that I refuse to watch, no matter how good the story is, because I won’t give tacit approval to the bad parts. Mushukou Tensei, No Game No Life, and many others fall in this category. But the stuff in Re:Zero, for example, needs to be viewed through the Japanese cultural lens where youthfulness is an ideal, and a mature character with the ability to manipulate their appearance at will naturally picks a young, petite body. The disparity between that characters childlike physical appearance and overtly adult attire and vile behavior is literally the point of the character.
If what you said explained everything then there would be no need for the “looks like a 13yo, but actually a 1000yo dragon” trope.
Sure, some of it can be explained by cultural things that are totally acceptable. There’s still a lot that can’t be though.
I did actually already explain that one (spiritual beings regressing to younger forms as they lose power) but here’s the full version from a while back when I got curious about this specific trope: https://docs.google.com/document/d/18xJbetvBNam51ZJaj7jdaMppRXls6ilrK-IoOQ3Czt0/
And to be clear, my goal has never been to justify the inappropriate sexualization of minors. Rather, my goal is to share the context for why these things developed as they have, and provide guidance on distinguishing between actual degeneracy and cultural misunderstandings. There is certainly plenty of anime with highly degenerate content, but there is also a lot of anime with content that appears to be a degenerate sexualization of a minor to a Western audience while a Japanese audience does not perceive it that way at all (rather than seeing it that way and allowing it)
I don’t think you understand the criticism. It isn’t the child entity existing that’s at issue. Yes, that paper gives context to how it started in the culture. That’s fine. It’s the sexualization that’s the issue. This does not provide any cultural context that makes that acceptable.
Western cultures also have similar cultural concepts, with all kinds of spirits and things inhabiting child bodies, but we don’t have (much) sexualized children spirit things in media.
Then you would need to point me to a specific instance of sexualization for me to comment on it.
There is a prevalent problem of western viewers seeing “3000 year old dragon in a child’s body” and immediately sexualizing it (“it’s just an excuse for …”) when the Japanese audience doesn’t view it that way. That’s what I’m trying to address.
If you have a specific character in mind I’m happy to help distinguish whether it is truly degenerate (certainly possible) or just a cultural misunderstanding of the intent.
I haven’t watched anime in quite a while (with the exception of CP Edgerunners, which does have a character that is sexualized and appears as a child, because of mods I guess). I can’t name any specific ones off the top of my head, and I do not want to search for them. You know they exist though. Saying “you need to point out specific ones” is trying to put it all on me. It’s not like this is some small thing that has only been done a few times.
Based cultural context here.
I hear this and sympathize.
…But. Honestly? It’s not just western fans that are the problem. A few anime shows I researched seem to use underage sex appeal (or other problematic depictions, like toxic relationships) to draw attention, to make money.
At some point that’s not a cultural difference or misunderstanding; it’s pandering. The showrunners know what they’re doing. I’d argue that is exploitation of Japanese culture.
And even if they’re rejected by fans like you, these problematic shows seem to be immensely popular.
And american tv shows don’t sexualize teenagers constantly?
every type of media panders to it’s fans… that’s the entire point.
and you are welcome to not watch if if that isn’t what you enjoy.
I have no doubt media you consume can be criticized as problematic from various POV that aren’t your own. And yet, you still consume it.
This is classic ‘it’s cringe when you do it/enjoy it, but based when I do it’
They didn’t defend american TV shows sexualizing teens, why even bring that in to the conversation like they are? Both are wrong. No one said one is ok and the other not…pedo is pedo is pedo.
A couple of things:
Trashy western sex appeal (or tacticool fetish, drug glorification, or whatever) is a fair point. That’s a problem. Some of those trashy western shows are popular, too.
But I don’t buy whataboutism. It doesn’t make either thing okay.
Some popular anime really takes things to an… extreme.
And even outside the notorious anime, I kept finding problematic tropes when I tried to get into anime, like these women written in a way that got me to squirm in my seat and turn off my TV. When I sample critically acclaimed western TV/animation, this is not such an issue; I don’t mean to make a comparison, but just to convey that anime sampling made me uncharacteristically uncomfortable.
My point is that you, a westerner, being comfortable with Western media but uncomfortable with Japanese media, is not as much indicative of the character of the content as it is indicative of the things that have been normalized for you vs the things that have been normalized for others.
That’s the thing you’re missing: every culture has problematic content, every culture gets desensitized to their own problematic stuff but not others’, and every culture has complex reasons why those things developed there.
I promise you: people around the world squirm at your favorite media just as much as you squirm at theirs, because your cultural history, standards, Overton Window, and exposure to media are significantly different.
You have been describing your subjective experiences as if they provide objective facts about the content. It is hard to step back, recognize your own cultural biases, and remove them before assessing both other cultures’ media and your own culture’s.
Like, imagine an American saying “I’ve sampled a lot of American food and almost never find it disgusting. But when I sample food from other countries I frequently find things I don’t like.” Wouldn’t you be like “yeah? And? Obviously that’s because you grew up with American food”
Ah yes of course, your romantic depictions of children are ok because they’re nuanced and cultural and any adults who call it weird just aren’t cultured enough to appreciate all that n
uaonce.Did you even read what I wrote? Or did you find the first sentence you didn’t like and skipped straight to the reply button?
Because I never said it was okay. I flat out stated that there are shows I refuse to watch due to their problems.
These issues are complex. Most cultures around the world have serious problems when you step back from your own subjective experiences. Getting btfo about one media subculture or another without understanding the “why” is unhelpful and ignorant. And many of the things you interpret one way are intended and interpreted extremely differently by the other culture. Everything I’ve said is about identifying the difference between actual degeneracy and cultural norms, and gracefully putting all of it in the proper cultural context.
If you just wanted to come here and stroke your own sense of moral superiority then piss off.
The cultural and histotical signifucance of your horny demon child anime does not justify it existing or stop it from being pedo shit.
You are obviously not here to engage in good faith discussion. You have repeatedly misrepresented both my words and my intentions.
I don’t know what axe you have to grind but it’s clear you are just looking to rant about how uncomfortable you feel.
You’re better off talking to a therapist about that than posting on the internet.
Goodbye and good luck.