People love using thinly veiled existing racist/homophobic slurs against AI. “Tinskin”, “wireback”, “cogsucker”, “clanker.”
Yes, I know that “clanker” was in Star Wars. That’s not what made it so popular, and the majority of people using it today likely never saw it there. People also use “clanka” and leave comments about using “the hard r.”
We all know what you’re talking about. You know when you’re typing it out. It’s not alright.
There are people places like Lemmy who spent their lives being called or watching their families be called the terms people are so lightly tossing about today. Do you really think that doesn’t bother any of them?
It seems like so many people were just eagerly waiting for something they felt it was socially acceptable to hurl slurs and abuse at, and happily reached for terms just like the ones they already knew.
Some kids at my niece’s school now think it’s cute to stare at black kids and talk loudly about how much they hate “clankas” making it very clear what they mean by it.
It’s one thing to dislike AI, how it’s been developed, and the intent of replacing human jobs. To insult AI and the people behind it.
It’s something completely different to jump in with constant streams of thinly veiled existing slurs that can and do hurt real people.
Obvious shit post.
I’ll be monitoring. If it gets out of hand, I’ll be removing it.
If you don’t understand the issue I absolutely welcome you to spend some time researching it. If you can’t see how thin surface modifications of existing racial slurs to use against AI are also something that could bother people with a lot of experience hearing the original terms it’s something you should definitely read in to.
It’s wonderful for you if you don’t have to have first hand experience on the issue, but don’t use your own world view to determine what can harm other people.
You’re more than welcome to come explain what a shit post it is to any of the older women in my family.
AI isn’t alive. It’s fancy if/else.
I build LLM models for a living, if you need my source
Can you point to the words I said here that makes you think I’m implying that it is?
tell your granny a shitpost is when her clanker boyfriend says he loves her very much
tell your granny a shitpost is when her clanker boyfriend says he loves her very much
You’re so in love with the using clanker instead of nigg** that you’re happily using it to refer to black people right now.
If you don’t see the clear issue with you saying that then you’re an embarrassment. Both of my grandparents are in their 90s and they’d beat shit down your leg for making a comment like that.
Blocking you now. I don’t fuck with racists.
AI’s may be tinskin, but you obviously have thin skin if you are this offended
You didn’t have a 10 year old girl crying about to you earlier. You sound like a terrible person.
what in gods holy name are you blathering about?
I said JonsJava is welcome to explain how this is a shitpost to my grandmother. Because she’s old and black and extremely bothered by these terms.
A brilliant human responded to tell my granny something about her clanker boyfriend. That would be my grandfather, who is also black.
The entire point of the topic is that repurposing existing slurs against humans with slight variations is fucked up.
Do I still need to keep connecting dots, or can you take it from there for yourself?
Your grandma is fucking soft and an idiot. I bet she gets her opinions on AI from some clanker. No need to be so tinskinned about terms used to shit on a literal computer with no feelings.
My grandma grew up being spit on and called a nigge* and survived being lynched.
Your parents didn’t hit you enough.
Thank you for posting Abyssian. The world really doesn’t need more slurs.
What’s that meme Lemmy likes to whip out? “it is the tool of the enemy, we do not need it, we do not use it” …yea, well, that. Come on people.
You know, overall I think I agree with you, and I suspect you’d be facing a lot less pushback if you’d made your argument a bit more generic and not specifically about AI. If the argument is “co-opting existing hate speech language is not cool, even if you’re using it to talk about things that most people dislike, and even if those things aren’t capable of having feelings of their own.” If I saw a guy on the street stub his toe on a mailbox and then heard him angrily call it a “metal f*g”, I’d think he was a weird homophobe. I still remember people in the early 00’s using the term “wigger” to refer to Caucasian rapper wannabes, and how it pretty quickly fell out of use because it was obviously gross, even for the time.
I must not run in the same kinds of circles as you, online or IRL, because I think I’ve only heard one or two people use the term clanker and I haven’t heard anyone use the other terms you mentioned. The times I’ve heard/read clanker, it didn’t seem like the people were trying to make allusions to the n word. They certainly weren’t doing any of that “clanka”, “don’t say the hard R, yuck yuck” type stuff or I definitely would have clocked what they were doing. The other terms you mentioned are, to me, way more obviously derived from existing slurs.
It’s definitely not something just starting. Any time someone tries to talk about it they get comments like this.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted so much. Slurs are immature, and crude; the subject honestly has nothing to do with it.
I’ve never seen someone else hurl a slur and feel good about it myself.
It’s weird as hell. I don’t understand how people can get that using slurs against other people is bad yet fail to understand that putting a small spin on that same slur and using it all the time against something different is still going to harm people and still going to end up being used by racists directly as a replacement for it’s origin word.
My niece goes to school and has kids loudly talking about how much they hate “clankers” while staring at her. She’s 10 years old. I try to discuss the harm in using these terms and multiple people have responded by using the same slurs against me and my family. Someone said that because of my display name I must be a child rapist.
I feel like I took crazy pills. I guess I didn’t miss the civil rights movement by as much as I’d always thought.
Also, yes. I don’t like it when crude behavior is called out, and the other party immediately attacks you as a “supporter” of whatever they’re attacking. That particularly rubs me the wrong way, it happens to me all the time on Lemmy… and the admins/mods of some instances/communities are completely fine with it. They do it themselves.
Don’t take it personally.
Lemmy is really… militant. A large fraction of people here seem to be okay with that kind of behavior as long as its at the right target. And I think social media has rubbed off on many parents, who instill that in their kids.
I am not a parent, so you probably shouldn’t listen to me. But. If I was talking to my 10 year old, I’d try to explain why the other kids are using that kind of slang. I think it would make more sense than simply telling them friends are saying bad things. Kids are smarter than people given them credit for, in my experience, as long as you frame things within their experience.
She knows what the n word is. But kids get in trouble using that so they’re migrating to the shiny new c word everyone’s so comfortable using in just the same ways.
Lemmy seems to have a really uncomfortable and unexpected amount of hate. The minute someone doesn’t fit in an established tribe so many people here become rabid.
Lemmy seems to have a really uncomfortable and unexpected amount of hate. The minute someone doesn’t fit in an established tribe so many people here become rabid.
Agreed.
To be fair, most social media runs on ragebait now; it’s just hidden in some feeds.
But I’m disappointed Lemmy, collectively, decided to import it and lean into it. It makes me sad.
AI-powered UAVs are clankers with altitude.
I hate to break it to you, but they’re not the same words. Also cocksucker isn’t racial and hardly counts as a slur. Stop assuming intent where there isn’t any just because you are conflating terms.
Cocksucker is a homophobic slur. It’s still used widely with that intent in some regions.
https://www.thedailystar.net/star-youth/news/troubling-ethos-behind-anti-ai-rhetoric-4064471
It’s not some magic coincidence that all the most popular AI slurs mirror existing slurs against groups of humans.
How could they not mirror existing terms in some way?
You don’t need to repurpose hateful words thrown at human beings to make a new hateful term. You just use a new word instead of twisting an existing slur. Or turn a word that isn’t an existing slur such as “bot” into an AI specific slur.
Given that example, ‘Bot’ Sounds like ‘gook’. I don’t think it’s possible to come up with a new term that is simultaneously catchy and also isn’t similar in some way to preexisting terms
While I’ve never seen nor heard them used before, I’m with you on existing slurs being slightly tweaked for use in other contexts (e.g. wetback to wireback) being in poor taste.
What are the racist or homophobic roots of “clanker”? Sharing the “-er” suffix with another word doesn’t count, that’s just the nature of language.
You know what clanker and clanka is a play on. It’s not a mystery. Maybe George Lucas or whoever slipped it in to a game in 2005 thought it was cute, but we all know the wordplay behind it.
I genuinely do not. “clank” is not a minority group that I am aware of, nor does it sound remotely close to one.
If you’re trying to draw a connection to “nigger” and “nigga”, that’s quite a stretch and you’re grasping at straws.
“-er” is a suffix that gets used for a thing of person that does something. The robots go clank, that’s it.
https://www.thedailystar.net/star-youth/news/troubling-ethos-behind-anti-ai-rhetoric-4064471
The way it’s used with people making comments on “my clankas” and the “hard r” is a simple twist on the most popular slur against black people. The vast majority of people use it knowingly. It’s now used as a thin veil on racism against children. They weren’t calling a child a ni**** they were calling an AI a clanker while staring meaningfully at the child and laughing.
Using these terms in these ways does nothing to make society better or more welcoming, and it does actively harm people. It’s fucked up to see it constantly, and it’s fucked up that any time you try to speak out against it you have a swarm of people down voting and mocking because holding on the the shitty slur they’ve decided they like using the most is more important to them than it’s impact on actual other humans.
Concerning a subject matter that is unequivocally about racial undertones in US culture, your chosen source to cite is… a Bangladeshi publication?
Look into ownership of this news outlet and I think you’ll find out answer as to why they might be looking to stir up controversy around the use of derogatory terms towards technology like AI.
Spoiler: It’s the ultra-wealthy again
This is an example of the genetic fallacy. You’re ignoring the content itself to complain about it’s origin. It’s hardly the only place on the internet that says something similar, and the content is well written. It does a great job of listing the slurs and it’s point is that maybe bigotry is a bad thing.
We shouldn’t hurt real people who enjoy replacing human jobs. Ok.
You completely missed the point entirely. You don’t need to use thinly veiled existing racial slurs to do insult AI or the people behind it.
You sit down and try to explain to a 10 year old black girl why some kids at school were talking about “using the hard r” on clanker and then tell me this shit isn’t a problem because the term is being said against AI instead of the black girl directly now.
we can’t remove all insults from language. almost everything has something it dates back to and also depending on ones background some things are going to be funny. I don’t see a point in time where hearing about some british guy smoking a fag does not make me giggle.
we can’t remove all insults from language. almost everything has something it dates back to and also depending on ones background some things are going to be funny.
The backgrounds where hearing racist terms are funny would be racist backgrounds.
We clearly do remove some words. I can type that I grew up being called a removed and this system automatically removes the word. If a word is that bad it needs automatically scoured from the platform entirely then maybe using a small variation on it that could and in many cases does cause harm to the same people isn’t the best thing to do.
There’s a reason the biggest words used against AI are slight variation on slurs used against humans. That reason might be that a lot of people have been too lazy to come up with a new word without horrible historic baggage, and it might be because a whole lot of people just wish they could be using the racist slurs themselves.
Seems like maybe it would be worth the effort to come up with something new instead of talking about your clankas.
I have never seen a word removed and im not willing to take your word for it honestly. you could be writing removed. honestly based on the words from your OP I doubt I would even know what they are. you know its like the confederate flag. I get it. Both the history and the people who have since used it as a symbol. sto at one point though did a confederate flag paintjob you could get for a racecar type ship that was a call back to the general lee. I mean at that point its like you know I get people get a giddy little kick with their dukes of hazard ship. similarly its really annoying that the nazi symbol is a reversed hindu symbol that without the nazis is kinda cool.
You know what word clanker and clanka are playing on. Go ahead and type it in a comment and see what happens. I can’t even say it’s a thin veil on removed because that word is so bad you can’t even type it here. Hint: It starts with N and ends with r.
The rest of your post just sounds like support for racism symbols, but you do you.
ok so clanker and clanka is apparently equivalent to a derogatory word used in the us for black people if I have you right. sounds to me like its a us centric thing because until you explained it here. if I understand you correctly. I had no idea it was equivalent. I know its a british insult like bugger which has no real meaning for someone in the us except if they heard it enough from british sources. tosser really is not a thing here to but its not hard to decipher especially if made with a hand gesture. heck I only know these so well because relative to the average us person im somewhat of an anglophile (not really I just like some bbc stuff). Does the one g make a difference? Can you talk about the country Niger?
Looks like you can. You can type Niger and nigga but not removed.
Yeah, all of the other slurs against AI that I listed are thinly veiled racial and homophobic slurs used massively in the US. An existing slur used against people for generations is the root of every one of them.
none of them are used massively in the us. I have never heard of any of them before nor can I think of a variation that would be. I mean cogsucker would be cocksucker but that is a general slur not specifically for gay men. its like I said you would have to get rid of all sorts of insults because that one is very very common. then wireback could be wetback but that is against immigrants from mexico although is likely used for anyone who seems like they could be mexican so like everything south of america. It is not that high on the slur level though given its descriptive of wading through water to cross the border. yeah and clanker and tinskin I only know the one from you and the other I can’t figure out if it is something here.
It sounds more like you’ve been around slurs and never paused to think about them. Why do you think “cocksucker” could be used as a slur in the first place? It’s calling someone gay. Which is an insult, because gay = bad. It’s an extremely offensive term.
So is wetback. So are all of them. You not having experience having them hurled at you to understand how hurtful and fucked up they are doesn’t mean that they’re not those things.
You shouldn’t be racist against people because that’s unethical. But this is against AI, and AI isn’t people. And because it’s socially acceptable to say that, people have a lower threshold. Then there’s also good reasons to say it. There’s incredible unfairness in the way AI is implemented, who it affects, the problems it exacerbates and the side-effects it comes with. This is why people like saying it, as a form of protest.
And I agree with them. I don’t say it, but I can emphasize with most of those people and it’s generally useful to highlight the wrongs it is doing.
Now it’s hard for me to understand how this affects people who are not implicated in the development of AIs. I can agree not everyone who develops AIs is bad, but the development of AI as a whole comes with some obvious baggage. And you’re not calling the people clankers, you’re calling the AIs clankers.
So in short: I feel like “clanker” is not hurtful, and it’s fine to say and I have a hard time understanding your issues with it, if you’re not an AI.
You genuinely can’t understand that all of the terms I listed are very slight variation on terms racists and homophobes have hurled at other humans for generations?
You can’t understand why how cute everybody now thinks it is to use clanker might not be exactly wonderful and comfortable for black people who have grown up hearing the very similar term to that used against their family their entire lives?
Once again, I repeat that I see nothing wrong with insulting ai. The problem is using slight variations on existing racial slurs to do that. Come up with a new word. If the only words you can possibly come up with to insult AI are slight variations of racial slurs there is a serious problem in your head.
- I can understand that. Doesn’t change my answer.
- I can understand that. Doesn’t change my answer.
- That’s fair, and that’s a valid opinion. And if a lot of black people say that, my opinion will change. Until then I disagree with your opinion.
There are plenty of posts elsewhere about the same thing. They get the same response as this post. Down voted to oblivion by people who call them things like “clanker lover” because they can’t think their way through understanding something that doesn’t match their own life experiences and are angry at the thought of giving up a slur they enjoy.
Aww, did someone insult your clanker girlfriend? 🤖
No, I grew up being called a removed and having to watch my family go through the same thing.
I had to explain to my 10 year old niece why someone was talking about clankas and the hard r as a cute joke at her school.
I don’t really see how any of the common ‘slur’ terms you mentioned equate or reflect in any way racial slurs used amongst humans.
Like, I’ve never looked at the color of a computer and called it anything racial, but I sure will call out a system for being a potato and also call out a vehicle for being a shitbox, and the Cybertruck in particular a rolling dumpster.
AI = Clanker, okay, I’m fine with that. Not a term I use everyday, but I’m fine with that.
Hey, if I insult my neighbor, well I probably deserve to get punched in the face. But to insult troublesome, emotionless devices, so what?
I don’t really see how any of the common ‘slur’ terms you mentioned equate or reflect in any way racial slurs used amongst humans.
Literally all of the slurs I listed are very light variations on existing racial and homophobic slurs. Wetback, cocksucker, redskin, removed. If you’re repeating them in ignorance, that isn’t great.
With so many of them being so very similar to slurs with a whole lot of historic use against humans you really think it’s just a magic coincidence those became the terms used for AI slurs? More like racists who had those words ready in their head came up with things that sounded funny to them and people just ran with it.
I happen to be part Native American, and yet I don’t see any comparison between ‘redskin’ and ‘tinskin’. I don’t go out of my way looking or listening for things to get offended or upset about.
Hell, you could call me a redskin or a redneck, and I won’t get offended, I’ll just chuckle for a moment and move on. Now if you called me a redhead, well I’d have to point out the obvious if you saw me in person, my hair is dark brown with some salt and pepper greys, and then just move on.
My parents taught me one of the simple basics…
“Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me”
But to feel offended when someone insults their system for crashing after a forced auto-update after AI done fucked up and mangled working code, well yeah fuck the clankers!
That’s fantastic for you, however the world is full of people who are not you. Instead of being proud of how tough you are with your sticks and stones quote, try explaining to a child why kids were mocking her by calling her a clanka.
Bruh, when I was growing up, most people couldn’t pronounce my last name. Without saying it directly, I got everything from Anchovie to Chavez.
Did it ever upset me? No.
You sound like a thinskin though, and I’m sorry that the dictation of certain sound sequences bothers you, maybe go smoke a joint or something.
By the way, your username itself is a very specific slur. You’re probably right, but it’s still a slur…
If you don’t wanna hear or read slurs, well maybe try another username.
I’m trying to say that using very light variations on slurs used to denigrate and attack groups of people for ages is probably not the best way to insult AI since those same people can be and are hurt by seeing that shit everywhere. Your response is trying to insult me.
No, there is no slur in my user name. Perhaps you should go look up the meaning of the word slur. Your own ignorance of what constitutes a slur or the harm they can cause to others is not a valid excuse.
Agreed. They shouldn’t be thinly veiled.
That would make a lot of racists very happy.
I’ll insult an inanimate object all I like, thanks. They’re not people. If you can’t see the difference, I don’t know what to say to you. The only example you gave was for fictional robots.
You’re missing the entire point. I never ever said anything against insulting AI, or potatoes, or rocks.
But swapping a letter or two in an existing racial slur that has been used against many people for a long time is not a good way to do that. Every AI insult that I know of is a direct play on an existing racist or homophobic slur.
Those terms hurt people. That is the problem. Explaining to a little girl why some assholes in her class keep talking about clankas and clankers staring at her and laughing.
Explaining to a little girl why some assholes in her class keep talking about clankas and clankers staring at her and laughing.
If I’m ‘missing the point’ it’s only because you’re making no sense whatsoever. I’m done here.
https://www.thedailystar.net/star-youth/news/troubling-ethos-behind-anti-ai-rhetoric-4064471
Clanker is used in place of nigge* all across the internet. It’s now spreading to being used literally in it’s place to insult black kids.
Every popular anti-AI slur I know of is just a thin coat of paint on an existing slur. Using something that’s just a slight twist on an existing slur means that those “new” slurs are going to cause damage to the groups the original slur was used against already, and makes it extremely easy to use as a cover.
Some kids at my niece’s school now think it’s cute to stare at black kids and talk loudly about how much they hate “clankas” making it very clear what they mean by it. If it’s brought up with the school administration they respond the same way people in this thread are, trying to condescendingly explain that it’s a term against AI and not a racial slur. I’m sure there are places where families are going through the same with “wireback” and the rest of them.
