That’s great, thanks! I really appreciate the detailed response and the links.
The methodology IS cloud native
Ok great. Is it also fair to say that cloud native is the methodology? Or is cloud native a higher order concept that the methodology can fall into? I.e. rock is music, but music is not rock.
Dude, thank you for this. IMO reducing that down to simply “cloud native” is doing a disservice to how absolutely cool that methodology is.
I loved RancherOS in the server space, and always wished there could be a desktop version of it, but I realize that the isolation of docker on docker would be very difficult to deal with for desktop applications. From your description, I feel like Bazzite has done the next best thing.
If I may frame things in RancherOS terms and perspective briefly, given your description of what’s going on with Bazzite, the System Docker container image is being built in the cloud every day, and you could pull it down, reboot, and have the latest version of the OS running. The difference, I am gathering from context, is that while RancherOS “boots” the system image in docker, Bazzite simply abandons RancherOS’s hypervisor-esq system docker layer, and does something like simply mount the image layers at boot time (seeing as how the kernel is contained within the image), and boots the kernel and surrounding OS from that volume. The image is simultaneously a container volume and a bare metal volume. In the cloud, it’s a container volume for purposes of builds and updates, which greatly simplifies a bunch of things. Locally, the image is a bootable volume that is mounted and executed on bare metal. Delivery of updates is literally the equivalent of “docker pull” and a boot loader that can understand the local image registry, mount the image layer volumes appropriately, and then boot the kernel from there.
Do I have this roughly correct?
Hey there, I’m the founder of Bazzite.
Hey man, so great you are here! What an opportunity that you came here to provide clarity. Thanks for being here!
Just wanted to confirm that we have no interest in VC funding. we’re [not] marketing to people with too much money and a lack of sense
That’s super great to hear. Refreshing in fact.
Putting a whole distro together is a monumental task. Why have you gone to all the effort to do so? What does Bazzite bring to the table that can’t be found by using any other distribution? For everyone who is currently using, say, fedora, why should they all switch to Bazzite today? (I am currently running fedora and I am thinking about a change, can you give me a reason to jump?)
As someone who builds and deploys software in the cloud all day, seeing the term “cloud native” used for a desktop OS just reads as jibberish to me, no offense. Nobody can seem to explain clearly in simple terms what is actually meant by it.
Does it just mean all of the compilation of binaries and subsequent packaging have all been designed and set up to run in a uniform build pipeline that can be executed in the cloud? Or is bazzite just basically RancherOS (RIP) but for the desktop? I am seeing people in this thread talking along the lines of both of these things, but they are not the same.
Can you explain what the term “cloud native” means as it relates to bazzite in a way that someone who can build Linux from scratch, understands CI/CD, and uses docker/kubernetes/whatever to deploy services in the cloud, could grok the term in short order?
This would be amazing for podcasts. Eliminate background music so that skip silence always works and things get to the point quicker.
Exactly
Tell me you are too oblivious to implement CI/CD without telling me you’re too oblivious to to implement CI/CD. Their builds and packaging should have been fully automated if it was such a pain. If you can make a Mac version of any software, you can make a Linux version. The debate internally was likely management being dumb as rocks and overruling anyone who actually knows anything.
Might be this dude; it is not free, just very affordable in their market. It turns out making it affordable also brings in a lot of revenue.
O.C.: Have you consulted about this “tables” approach with other Lua developers?
I.T.: After that, I went back to Dmitry and asked him if my understanding of “everything is a table” was correct and, if so, why Lua was designed this way. Dmitry told me that Lua was created at the Pontifical Catholic University of Rio de Janeiro and that it was acceptable for Pontifical Catholic Universities to design programming languages this way.
Lol what? Is there some kind of inside joke about Catholics and tables?
Interesting. I wonder how that compares to a similar Li-ion cell. Also it’s a shame there wasn’t a close-up on the markings of the battery in that video to know what it is exactly. I don’t imagine all cells are equal.
The battery packs from the article, for instance, are not constructed from cylindrical cells, but from large thin and flat square cells. The cathode material appears to be unique as well, as far as I can tell; who knows what’s in those blue cylindrical cells.
explosive hazard
Can you elaborate on that? I was just reading the data sheet for these batteries, and these are tested with a ballistic penetration test, resulting in no fire.
I’m presuming this concern is from watching videos of elemental sodium reacting with water, which stands to reason, but I’ve not heard of exploding batteries
Why have it do everything?
Isn’t the guy behind systemd a (former?) Microsoft employee? I feel as though that might offer a clue as to why the trajectory towards bloat.
Those samples were cool as hell.
Bro! Download Ignition, it’s free, do all of the free courses, get the certification (also free I think), put it on your resume/CV and get yourself a job in automation! It’s in demand.
IMO It’s cool as hell to control machines as big as a room with a click of a button on an interface you built with your own two hands, lemme tell ya.
Thanks for your response. Sorry I didn’t get the joke.
As promised, here’s a “simple” explanation of SCADA, or as simple as I can make it at least. It will probably be rudimentary enough to be controversial, and long enough to be boring. Oh well.
It stands for supervisory control and data acquisition, and if you think that’s a weird mouthful, it’s because it’s old and comes from a time when clicking graphics on a screen was a novel idea, and logging swaths of data with a computer and searching within it and rendering graphs from it was cutting edge. The term is basically relegated to plant, industrial and manufacturing type processes where a bunch of engineering has gone into it. Processes like brewing, water treatment, factories, assembly lines, etc.
Those processes are automated with special computers called PLCs that are basically “robot brains” that control things like (but not limited to) motors, valves, pumps, conveyers, robot arms, all kinds of stuff to manipulate the physical world, and can receive information from sensors like (but not limited to) pressure, speed, flow, weight, on/off, open/closed, temperature, distance, or anything else that someone has built a physical world sensor for. You can put all that stuff together with a program in the PLC and automate practically anything from beer making to zebra counting.
And that’s all well and good, but if you want to see what the process is doing (supervise it), or stop it if it’s gone off the rails (control), or see what it did last time (data acquisition), you need SCADA. There’s special software to build a SCADA system with, and it’s mostly special because it needs to talk to the myriads of PLC (and related) gear out there, and until relatively recently, it’s been tied to an ancient Windows technology called OLE, meaning if you wanted SCADA in your industrial process, you had to suffer with the rather unindustrial wart of Windows in the middle of it. OP is seeking the industrial Holy Grail of a windowsless process in their plant.
We take it for granted today that we can build an interface in a web browser, and hook it up to control a USB device, all in one day, but 40+ years ago there was Windows 3, serial devices, and no commonly established way to communicate with gear (which OLE kinda solved), or standard design of how interfaces should look or work. Ignition brings all of that old shit into the modern world.
A relatable example you could call “baby SCADA” would be a smart thermostat, if it has an onboard temperature trend graph. The process it controls is your automated home heating and cooling. The smart thermostat can tell you if the AC is running, you can change the target setting that you want the room temperature to go to. And if it has a graph of the temperature for the last 24 hours so you can see that the schedule you set worked, then it’s basically a 'lil SCADA.
Cheers.
Please don’t take the following as me being a dick, I am just genuinely curious. Your response is unique and interesting to me.
I have no idea what you are asking
Then why did you feel compelled to respond?
The rest of the thread is filled with people who know the topic and gave relevant responses very specific to OP’s situation. Many hours before your response in fact. I’m a little perplexed.
Maybe custom built software
Any person (with enough budget) could get software built, but that’s obvious to anyone, so it’s kind of redundant to suggest, so why write it given the other responses? I am further perplexed.
Just install Gentoo. It will fix your problems.
I take this as humor. OP was looking for software to run on Linux, not a Linux distro. Was that the joke?
Anyway, I’m sorry if I have come across as critical or insulting. I really am just curious. If I have, and it’s any consolation, if you care to genuinely answer my questions, I’ll give you a short explanation of what OP was on about, if that is helpful to you. I think it was very kind of you to respond to OP, I think I’m just confused more than anything.
Ignition from Inductive Automation. Works great on Linux, used to run it in docker even. There are drivers for all kinds of PLCs. It’s a dream to develop in, was my SCADA platform of choice (I’ve moved on from the industry). If you need to script anything, it is in Python, not some bullshit proprietary scripting language, nor VBA garbage. The client software is great, even runs nice on PC-based HMI touch panels, which you could install Linux on if you want. The call-out alarming actually works (FUCK WIN911).
The software is free to try and download. You can develop in it for free, unlike the majority of competitors. Go ahead and try all of it out right now if you want. The training courses on using their software are free, nice handy videos, so you can start learning how to build everything like right now.
The “catch” is it costs money to run all of the SCADA critical components for more than an hour at a time (to prevent you from just using it to run your whole plant for free). But you can build your whole SCADA app today with your PLC gear on hand, and only pay for it once you are ready to deploy to production.
Anyway, to me, it’s hands-down the best SCADA platform, and it even runs on Linux. Disclaimer: some of this might be out of date, I’ve been gone about 4 years.
Edit: sorry, didn’t see the “free” requirement. I would never run a critical plant without support, so I’ve not explored any fully open source options. If your plant is serving more than just your farm/homestead (in other words, is serving the general public) I strongly recommend a supported option for your client. If you get hit by a bus, and the plant is in trouble, they’ll have a hard time finding someone to get them back online who knows your “weird” software.
That said, depending on your needs, Ignition can be cheap AF (comparatively) if your plant is small.
I’d count on Apple making the RCS bubbles green too, just to sow further confusion.
I guess now they are virtual assholes too.
Match owns all the patents