• Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        10 hours ago

        As an European, I very much prefer that we apply to those who support Israel the same standards we do for those who support Russia.

        So I’m absolutelly fine that we do not give BOTH Israel’s and Russia’s allies important technology.

        Doing otherwise would show our “European values” to in practice be nothing more than sociopathic hypocrisy.

        Of course, then ASML wouldn’t be able to sell its machines to America and at least half of Europe as well as quite number of other countries.

        • REDACTED@infosec.pub
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          9 hours ago

          We should apply the same punishment to countries that directly threaten and invade Europe versus countries that aren’t even close to Europe and are no threat? Do you want EU to become the next world police like US and get involved into all global conflicts? Maybe we should learn a thing or two from US and stay the fuck away from middle east.

          • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            9 hours ago

            Ah, I see, you’re driven by “what’s in it for me”, not by principles.

            Well, by that logic, I as an EU citizen shouldn’t give a shit, since Russia hasn’t attacked the EU (at most they should get a proportional talkie-talkie response when they engage in talkie-talkie “aggression”) and meanwhile it’s more profitable for the EU to engage with China than it is to cut them of, and as for the rest of Europe (most notably Ukraine), well screw them same as the “screw Palestinians” of your position.

            Even better, as a Portuguese and thus as far from Russia as possible whilst still being in Europe, by your “self interest” motivation I shouldn’t give a shit about Russia even if they invaded Eastern European EU countries.

            Of course, me being a person of principles, I support Palestine against the Israeli Genocide same as I support Ukraine against Russia aggression (no need to feel personally endangered by either aggressor) and what I think the EU should do in the international plane follows from that, but that’s not at all your reason to wanting that Europe behaves towards China in a certain way.

            • REDACTED@infosec.pub
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              7 hours ago

              Well, by that logic, I as an EU citizen shouldn’t give a shit, since Russia hasn’t attacked the EU

              Are you being for real right now? They have attacked several EU countries. Literally even assassinated people on foreign soils. Somewhat recently they launched drone attack on my country (Latvia) and blew up fuel storage. It is also a known fact that China trained Russian troops that were sent into European country.

              Even better, as a Portuguese and thus as far from Russia as possible whilst still being in Europe, by your “self interest” motivation I shouldn’t give a shit about Russia even if they invaded Eastern European EU countries.

              Are you being for real right now? EU is a union of states/countries, like US or Soviets were. Middle East is not part of that union. So if someone attacks Portugal, it would be fine for the rest of EU to ignore it just because people don’t want to get involved into middle east? Please, stop. You’re borderline copying Russian anti-EU sentiment and disinfo.

              https://www.plataformamedia.com/en/2026/04/14/portugal-china-and-russia-as-main-threats-to-internal-security/ - guess who did they not name? Middle eastern countries.

              • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                7 hours ago

                If you think denying technology to China because they work with Russia is a proportional response to Russia murdering people in Europe, I have some news for you about CIA activities all over the World including in Europe …

                It’s a lot more simple to just follow the logic of Principles and pushing back on those commiting wars of aggression and genocide and those who support them as a rule and without trying to treat some of those one way and others differently for *reasons*, than try and come up with the perfect red-line of actions in Europe which decides between “do nothing at all” and “block anybody in any away associated with them”, that puts Russia on the bad side of the line and the likes of America on the good side so that we can keep on treating one set of murderous imperialists better than the other.

                • REDACTED@infosec.pub
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                  6 hours ago

                  If you think denying technology to China because they work with Russia is a proportional response

                  It’s not about proportional response, it’s about what we can do. We can’t do alot, but we could at least not share critical technology.

                  I’m not sure why are you comparing Russia to US. The CIA has never officially planned or executed a successful coup in Europe. If you want us to get hostile towards any country who has done something to another country (outside EU), we’d have only enemies.

                  It’s a lot more simple to just follow the logic of Principles and pushing back on those commiting wars of aggression and genocide

                  Again. If we’d get involved into every conflict, we’d likely have no friends, but only enemies. Which war is more important for Europe? Why would we shift focus to middle east? Europe is already pretty much hostile towards Israel and not on good terms with US (Spain just signed some mining deal with Iran), but why are we even talking about those two conflicts? There are currently 25+ active conflicts. Why not a single word about Thailand and Cambodia, or all those African conflicts, or Iran, or Afghanistan, or Sudan, or etc… Either you’re a hypocrite and care about specific conflict only, or you want EU to basically sacrifice itself by getting involved into every conflict (which would borderline lead to isolationism).

                  What do you think Americans would do with Russo-Ukrainian war if we sent assist or even weapons to Palestine (same old “what can we even do?”)? Same with getting involved into Asia (Thailand). Let’s just not, we have our own war.

      • AvocadoSandwich@eviltoast.org
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        13 hours ago

        China is not a Russian ally though. China is an opportunistic state. They make agreements and trade with anyone who they think will further their goals. Thus they trade with Russia because by doing so they gain influence in a diminishing state that controls a lot of resources (Russia’s far east is increasingly becoming Chinese by population and companies for a reason)

        China doesn’t make friends, they make deals with anyone and everyone as long as they think it is positive for China.

      • inari@piefed.zipOP
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        22 hours ago

        It’s pointless. They’ll just produce domestically whatever you refuse to sell them. And then ASML will lose its monopoly by having to compete with Chinese firms.

        • REDACTED@infosec.pub
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          14 hours ago

          So your logic is “Give China everything they ask otherwise they will make their own and outcompete you”?

          You know, that sounds awfully close to what Russians constantly say, but replace make with take

          • inari@piefed.zipOP
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            14 hours ago

            It’s not my logic, it’s what’s currently happening after the US imposed bans of certain technologies on China

        • SleeplessCityLights@programming.dev
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          21 hours ago

          You can’t do that. There is a reason only one company in the entire world can do it. It’s because it’s really hard to do and it is an iterative technology.

          • Talcosis@lemmy.zip
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            20 hours ago

            That reason is nobody has ever dumped a shitload of cash into it because it was cheaper to just buy from the company that already figured it out.

          • inari@piefed.zipOP
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            21 hours ago

            Well, now China has no other option other than trying to produce it.

        • wicked@programming.dev
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          21 hours ago

          Chinese firms are already trying to replicate it. Giving them one to study may just accelerate the process.

          • Great Blue Heron@lemmy.ca
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            21 hours ago

            They’ve already tried that - they bought one, pulled it apart to see how it worked and couldn’t put it together again. There’s a Veritasium video about it.

    • Miller@lemmy.world
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      24 hours ago

      It’s time to play the music It’s time to light the lights It’s time to meet the Muppets on the Muppet Show tonight