Ricky Mondello (@[email protected])
hachyderm.io
If you actually read the “Passkeys are a trap. Do not use them.” post going around, you’ll find a transparent attempt to clumsily string together a conspiracy. The post is predicated on the idea that a feature of WebAuthn called “attestation”, which is only used in high-assurance and usually corporate scenarios, and usually with physical hardware security keys, will be leveraged to hurt people, somehow. The post posits that a website like X will bait and switch users: first, you get a passkey. Then, later, scary “attested” passkeys! This simply isn’t possible to do because attestation isn’t supported on the web for mass market, consumer authentication. Attestation for passkeys (software-based, syncable credentials) is antithetical to their mass market goals, and would freeze out independent, non-corporate-backed credential managers. It’s an explicit non-goal of the designers of passkeys, who work together in a forum anyone can join. And trust me, websites and apps like banks repeatedly asked for attestation at the beginning of the industry’s passkey journey. The platforms, browsers, and credential management apps have held firm that the goal of passkeys is reducing phishing and **not** some kind of trusted computing scheme. (And I will note: over my dead body!) Besides the theory of the case being fundamentally wrong, there are several things that make the post disqualifying in terms of arguing something useful or important in the realm of security, privacy, and user authentication: 1. Intentionally presenting things that are complicated as inherently suspicious. (Delivering security by design can be complicated, yes!) 2. Describing TOTP as a “great solution” for adding security to a password-based account. When the most common threat model on the web is phishing (a word the post never mentions!), TOTP hardly buys you _anything_. TOTP is phishable. 3. Seeming to be unbothered by how many logical leaps are being taken without actually understanding the topic being discussed. There are bad things happening in tech and untrustworthy people and companies do exist, but they’re largely in the AI space, not the “let’s stop people we love from getting compromised through phishing” space.

A rebuttal to an anti-passkey, pro-TOTP post that has made the rounds on Lemmy as well.

  • RedGreenBlue@lemmy.zip
    0·
    8 days ago

    Passkeys have inherent advantages over passwords. They are more secure.

    1. Public-private cryptography vs shared secret
    2. They can be stored in an authenticator that can never leak your private key.
    3. You can have many passkeys for the same account and they are all unique and can be revoked individually.
    4. Can be put in a password manager. (less secure, but still better than password. see point 1)

    The standard requiring the authenticator to report attestation if asked, opens up for abuse though.

    Even if the standard allows them asking for attestation; the nice thing is that they can’t force the passkey in to protected storage, as long as there is a browser like firefox in between you and them. (don’t use non free apps) So store all your passkeys how you wish and the day they start asking you to replace those passkeys with their better storage options, you just don’t. If they lock you out of your account, then stop using their service. Don’t use shitty services when they abuse you.

    They are turning off passwords before they start asking for attested authenticators anyway. So might as well enjoy the convenience of passkeys while they are working like you want them to.

    • sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      0·
      8 days ago

      I get the anti-phishing notion, but they are buggy pieces of shit so you can’t use them even if you wanted to

      • RedGreenBlue@lemmy.zip
        0·
        8 days ago

        Passkeys are not perfectly implemented on every service and not exactly widely available. I use passkeys on a handful of places. Where they work, they are nice. I want my accounts passwordless and no multi-hassle-authentication any more.

        • sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          0·
          8 days ago

          They should stop pushing them since they don’t work. It takes more clicks now to get to the regular password options because they try the non working passkeys first now. You have to click “show more options to log in” .

          That’s why it is So frustrating.

    • Ferk@lemmy.ml
      0·
      8 days ago

      they can’t force the passkey in to protected storage, as long as there is a browser like firefox in between you and them.

      You also need to not use Windows Hello, or Apple Touch ID / Face ID (which actually is the default in Windows & Apple, even if you are using Firefox). Otherwise the browser will relay the request through them and provide the attestation.

      The problem is when the mainstream people do use those methods because it’s the default, they don’t know, or it’s simply more convenient since it’s bundled in their proprietary OS that they (stupidly) trust.

      If having your own non-attested custom method of providing your passkeys becomes something niche amongst the users of passkeys, then I would not be surprised if many places flip the switch and start requiring attested methods.

      Of course one can always switch to more consumer-friendly alternatives even if they are more niche, but as long as they remain niche it won’t stop the big services from pushing for anti-consumer practices.