Ultimately, the problem is much bigger than /etc/machine-id since there are dozens of hardware IDs on any PC that can be used by malicious telemetry to silently to uniquely identify and track you, and the only solution to this problem currently is to make sure you really trust any software you use.
Systemd, in particular, acts a lot like malware for Linux because if you try to reset your machine-id a long list of stuff that breaks in in it. You could make a cron script to reset /etc/machine-id every day, but machine-id is so deep in the stack that you’d also have to reboot to ensure it’s updated.
I’m not sure if the principles have been gutted like you say. Fedora, for example, uses systemd, and is supported by the commercial RedHat. And yet it is well regarded in the Linux community, and has firmly stuck to open source and pro-privacy principles. They foster diversity too, like the Fedora Atomic and Universal Blue projects, which make it easy to fork distros and create new ones. Not to mention, Linus Torvalds uses Fedora.
One could say that Linux is already growing at its own pace. There are some that wish it would move slower, some that wish it would move faster. systemd wasn’t forced on distros. in fact Ubuntu fought it for years, since it was created by their competitor after all. Yet Ubuntu still adopted it in the end, so it must have been worth it.
The way I see it, back in the day, Linux was too fragmented in some areas, and at the same time lacking isolation in others. Systemd standardized and addressed the fragmentation, while containers introduced isolation where needed. The lines are being re-drawn. But I don’t think the principles of Linux were compromised as much as you say.
I’m not sure who regards RedHat well actually, they’ve always been doing shitty things like trying to charge for Fedora hence why people ended up forking it as CentOS. They’re a poster child for the problems with Linux getting commercialized. Saying Linus uses something is just appeal to authority by the way.
The problem, once again, is that a lot of the development is now driven by commercial companies like RedHat and Ubuntu that are in it to make money. So, in a way these things are actually pushed on the community because you either adopt them or it becomes increasingly difficult to run software on your distro.
Fragmentation in init was a real problem, but it could’ve been solved much better by just creating a common standard for configurations while keeping the original modular design. Systemd approach is very heavy handed, and introduces a whole bunch of new problems which didn’t exist. The fundamental Unix principle is having small programs that do a single thing well and that can be composed together. Systemd goes directly against this principle.
I was giving Linus as an example of a member of the Linux community, and a particularly prominent one at that. There are many indicators that Fedora is well regarded, and that is just one of them.
Arguably, systemd made it easier to run software on Linux. The standardization made it easier for devs to write software that worked across distros. Devs didn’t have to fight fragmentation in the lower levels and could focus on building platforms on top like Flatpak, which in turn led to even more software and apps available on Linux. It’s way easier to find and run software than a few years ago.
I’m guessing what you were trying to say is that it’s harder to find and run software on Linux that doesn’t use systemd. That’s fair. Just like it’s hard to find apps nowadays that don’t use web technology, and require something like Electron or Firefox to run. But if we think of systemd as a platform (though I think it’s more complicated than that), does it go against the ideals of Linux?
First off, I know you didn’t say this but I want to just clarify: software principles are different from community ideals. Software principles are a means to an end. And they are often broken. Modular design is hard to get right. Microservices often end up messier than the monolithic approach. Ultimately it’s a balance. And strategy plays into this too. If monolithic design allows faster iteration, then even if it gets replaced with modular design later, you can use the lessons learned during those iterations to make the modular design.
It’s possible that someday Redhat tries to weaponize systemd and it ends up holding Linux back until we can replace it. But I doubt it. If you look at the recent backlash that Fedora and Firefox has gotten for AI, you can see that the Linux community is pretty vocal and active about their ideals.
I’ve already explained repeatedly how systemd goes against core Unix philosophy. Communities can form around all kinds of things, just because a community forms around bad idea that doesn’t mean it should be automatically accepted. Linux did get modular design largely right, that’s the whole problem here. Systemd throws the baby out with the bath water. Monolithic design was basically more convenient for companies trying to monetize the platform.
Systemd has gotten plenty of backlash as well, I’m certainly not the only person who sees the problems with it. The problem is that it’ll keep getting pushed by commercial interests. And the same thing will happen with AI incidentally.
I was agreeing with you. Systemd breaks unix philosophy. You know what else breaks unix philosophy? The Linux kernel. It’s absolutely massive. If you want unix philosophy, switch to a microkernel.
Also another commenter in this discussion pointed out that flatpak does not actually obfuscate machine-id. You can read the issue tracker here: https://github.com/flatpak/flatpak/issues/4311
Basically comes down to a design decisions from 15+ years ago, in things that flatpak depends on. This is an open issue to this day. Would it have been better for flatpak to have delayed release until this was solved, possibly remaining unreleased to this day? Meanwhile everybody would have to use regular system packages, which not only have access to machine-id, but also the entire userspace, with zero sandboxing. I doubt that would be better.
There are microkernels like minix and they work well, but that’s a different animal because user space is where you actually do make changes much more commonly than in the kernel. Also, I don’t really follow your argument regarding flatpack, it’s like you’re implying that containerized apps couldn’t exist without using machine-id for some reason?
I’m saying that if flatpak tried to implemenet machine-id obfuscation before releasing, they might not have ever released. By constraining their scope, they were able to focus on their other goals and release, and a lot of Linux users including me, are glad they did so. You can think of systemd’s machine-id situation in the same way
I’m saying flatpack didn’t even have to use machine-id at all for anything it does. I don’t know why you’re so invested in the idea that this was somehow necessary and nothing better is possible.